Posted on 12/03/2016 9:15:33 AM PST by marshmallow
An astonishing discovery has been made during repair work to the Edicule -- the ancient chamber housing Jesus' tomb in Jerusalem's Church of the Holy Sepulchre. Scientists have reported extraordinary phemonena that may support the authenticity of the Holy Shroud of Turin.
On October 26, 27 and 28, 2016 a group of scientists and religious authorities oversaw the removal of the marble slab that covers the tomb of Christ. Marie-Armelle Beaulieu, editor-in-chief of Terre Sainte Magazine, reports that some of the measuring instruments used by scientists were altered by electromagnetic disturbances when they were placed directly on the stone in which Christ’s body rested. The scientists reports that their measuring devices either malfunctioned or ceased to work at all. Aleteia reports:
The phenomenon was confirmed by one of the scientists authorized to access the tomb. Later, one of the heads of the building and construction team, Antonia Moropoulou, indicated that it is really hard to imagine that someone would be willing to put in danger his or her reputation just because of a “publicity stunt.” Moreover, the journalist testifies to the scientists’ surprise during the opening of the slab: they hoped that the grave would be much lower than it was. Their conclusion: previously performed analyses with the instruments seemed to have been distorted by an electromagnetic disturbance.
The observation of unusual electromagnetic disturbances at the tomb of Our Lord may support a scientific hypothesis proposed to explain the creation of the mysterious image on the Holy Shroud of Turin. After five years of study and experiments scientists at Italy's National Agency for New Technologies, Energy and Sustainable Economic Development [ENEA] concluded that the Shroud of Turin cannot be a 'medieval fake'.
That was satire, and meaningless. Several accurate inventories have been done and there is only enough wood in all of the known relics to account for approximately 2/3rds of the patibulum, the cross piece.
Sorry, Iscool, but the link you made does not establish that claim at all. The idea that the Jews of 2000 years ago buried their dead in cocoon like wrappings is not supported in the writings of the Hebrews, the Jewish Mishnah, or archaeology, or anything except the late 18th and 19th Century Christian church's applying Egyptian archaeology and conflating it to mistranslations and what they mis-interpreted to Biblical exegesis.
The Jews did not wrap their dead in yards and yards of bandage like wrappings like the egyptians burning their dead. Shrouds were indeed used if they could afford them, otherwise a head covering was used and the bodies were bound with minimal ties to keep the bodies from flopping akimbo, the jaws were bound to keep the mouth closed in death, and the eyes were weighted with something suitable to keep them closed. This was and is documented in the Mishnah and the Talmud, where such traditions are written.
Original Greek versions of the pertinent Gospels do indeed say that a Sindon was purchased by Joseph of Arimathea as part of the grave clothes for Jesus' burial. A Syndon is a large cloth, sheet, or a sail. In Joseph's case, it was reported to have been a fine Linen Syndon, so would not have been a sail. Poorer people frequently used sails as they were easily found in larger enough sizes.
The intent of a jewish burial was not preservation of the body which is why bandages would have been used. Keep in mind that bandage winding a body is a very time consuming procedure and under Jewish law, a body MUST be in the grave by sundown on the day of death. Requiring a time consuming procedure when quick burials is important does not make sense. . . especially with the other rituals required. Simple burials were the rule.
The purpose of a jewish burial was that the body rot within a year so the bones could be "collected and gathered unto the ancestors" in a central ossuary where all other family members' bones had been placed. Having them mixed with unclean cloth bandages would not facilitate this collection ceremony after the year had passed. The niche where the body and bones had lain for the year would then be available for re-use. In the First Century, individual ossuary boxes had been adopted by some of the richer families, mimicking the Roman practice, which was contrary to Jewish tradition, but it was rare. It was for this reason, among others that the ossuary box of James the brother of Jesus was really challenged. It was highly unlikely that Jesus' family would have ever been wealthy enough to have afforded such an extravagance, or used a non-traditional burial.
The Biblical specifications which require using a wood that is oleoresinous and the coating it on the inside and outside is a pretty good description of making a large capacitor. Carrying on poles in a dry environment would tend to cause it to pick up an electrical charge. Over time, that charge could grow to become lethal.
I have always thought that was the mechanism of how it killed anyone who inadvertently touched it.
Well they did write that lightning bolts shot out of it, didn’t they?
Powerful words.
Darwin was born a Christian...and supposedly died as a Christian...everything in between was a blind man’s pipe dream!
No one is born a Christian.
It means from God’s point of view, He has already provided proof.
Even more, He (in the way things exist) has provided information to us as to his nature.
What do I mean by that?
Are you familiar with the concept of the Tri-une nature of God (Trinity)?
God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit. (3 in One) is the concept.
But, how can three things be one thing? Romans 1:20 says creation can explain it, that is, if the Trinity is true.
Is it?
Space - 3 dimensions (Height, Width, Depth) - which, without all three, the volume of the entire universe would be ZERO (all three must exist for us to have space).
Time - 3 dimensions - Past, Present, Future
Matter - 3 basic (non-charged at rest states) Liquid, Solid, Gas
Matter - Electrons, Protons, Neutrons
Color - three major components...
Life - Plants, Animals, Mankind
Earth - Land, Sea, Air
etc, etc, etc
That caught my attention (no, really!).
I wasn't aware that I had any credit as an "intelligent observer." Do tell me more! (an attempt at some light humor)
I am always afraid of becoming dogmatic (but not skeptical) and unsusceptible to new ideas (but not so open-minded that my brains fall out).
I appreciate a well-intentioned rebuke from a more-seasoned FReeper. But in the case at hand, I'm wondering if maybe you aren't a little confused.
There is no basis here in this article for a productive, high-traction discussion. The superficiality of this article might be appropriate if it were about something "fluffy" like the birth of a two-headed alligator, etc. But this (the archeological site in Israel) is a serious subject. The article simply doesn't provide enough hard facts to serve as a basis for a serious discussion.
Conflating it with the topic of the Shroud of Turin is an unnecessary and premature complication. It does nothing but stimulate the imaginations of the Faithful and encourage wild speculation on the part of the scientifically unversed.
I'm not saying that serious scientists shouldn't continue examining this alleged phenomenon. Rather, I am a proponent of a stance of watchful waiting.
Thanks again for your rebuke!
Regards,
I never thought about all the 3’s in nature...wow!
He was raised in a Christian setting.
Here I was expecting an incipient flamewar...
The social situation, as you point out, is a little complex.
I have seen otherwise sane and rational people become rather unhinged at the discussion of the Shroud; who begin to exhibit all the stereotypical features of a Twue BeweiverTM in 6-day literalist YEC who has no scientific background, or like a triggered SJW snowflake... but arguing against the Shroud.
And I have seen a number of (more typically, Protestant) posters inveighing against the Shroud as either wishful thinking, or the Devil's CrutchTM, again, striking out first and not even hanging around for the "ask questions later" part.
Against this, there are those who endorse the Shroud's authenticity, but who, without any scientific training, accept and/or proffer *any* purported mechanism, provided it has the sufficient novelty and/or "shock and awe" factor.
And members of any of these camps may make several-posts-long temporary alliances with members of another camp to gang up on an unwary poster from another camp, before parting ways and coming almost to verbal blows with one another.
I can only surmise that the significance of the Shroud, were it shown genuine, would violate very closely held emotional attachments on the part of many people.
And yes, the temptation to lose patience and resort to Force 10 level sarcasm or invective on these threads has overcome myself on some of these threads, as well.
As far as this particular article goes, since it was originally in another language, I don't know whether the issue is one of translation from Italian to English, or the translation from scientific to journalistic: either could account for a fair amount of garbling; or, indeed, it is not above academicians to make either exaggerated or swashbuckling statements to journalists, either for fame, or to stake a claim ahead of other academics, or in hopes of attracting funding.
Carry on.
Thanks, Swordmaker. Perhaps to put it in a more FReeper-friendly context, they went all Al Gore Florida 2000 / Jill Stein 2016 recount on it... ;-)
No one is born a Christian.
Well, not the *first* time ;-) (John 3:7).
Ehr kumt.
Perhaps it is real. But speaking only for myself, it really doesn't matter.
Swordmaker,
Please take me off your ‘Shroud of Turin’ Pinglist. I am not here enough to matter, and I do not see that circumstance changing in any way.
Thx.
Seriously?? It’s the FACE of GOD the SON!!
However, my belief does not make it so.
And beyond that, I do not need such an image to bolster my faith in G-d nor prove to me that Jesus is His son. My faith needs no proof or images, nor icons to sustain it.
In the end, the Holy Shroud is a fascinating product of the power of G-d. It should not be necessary or used as proof of His holy word.
That's why I stated that, to me, it just doesn't matter whether it is real or not. My faith in our Lord Jesus Christ as my savior does not require it.
Many years ago I gave a book about the shroud to a young Muslim. Upon picking up the book and looking intently at His face I spoke to God in my heart letting Him know that I earnestly desired to see Jesus’ face more clearly. To my total surprise The LORD gave me a clear vision of Jesus face in His glory. Pure love streamed from His face as a beautiful light. I was aware that the light was not only light, but substance. I will never forget seeing Jesus face with the glory of God streaming forth from it.
OMG!!! What a BLESSED happening!!!!! Prayer WORKS!
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