Posted on 11/30/2016 2:41:47 PM PST by SeekAndFind
Thus Council of Trent Session XXV: Rule IV
...it is clear from experience that if the Sacred Books are permitted everywhere and without discrimination in the vernacular, there will by reason of the boldness of men arise therefrom more harm than good, the matter is in this respect left to the judgment of the bishop or inquisitor,..
Those, however, who presume to read or possess them without such permission may not receive absolution from their sins till they have handed over to the ordinary. Bookdealers who sell or in any way supply Bibles written in the vernacular to anyone who has not this permission, shall lose the price of the books, which is to be applied by the bishop to pious purposes, and in keeping with the nature of the crime they shall be subject to other penalties which are left to the judgment of the same bishop. Regulars who have not the permission of their superiors may not read or purchase them. (http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/trent-booksrules.asp)
The Bull Unigenitus, published at Rome, September 8, 1713, as part of its censure of the propositions of Jansenism*, also condemned the following as being errors:
81. The sacred obscurity of the Word of God is no reason for the laity to dispense themselves from reading it.
82. The Lord's Day ought to be sanctified by Christians with readings of pious works and above all of the Holy Scriptures. It is harmful for a Christian to wish to withdraw from this reading.
Finally,
"A dumb and difficult book was substituted for the living voice of the Church...We must also keep in mind that whenever or wherever reading endangers the purity of Christian thought and living the unum necessarium it has to be wisely restricted." — A Catholic Commentary on Holy Scripture (London: Thomas Nelson, 1953) pp. 11-12.
This sounds like how many RCs speak of Pope Francis, while the "living voice" of that office is what they point us to versus the assured and living word of God, Scripture!
That was actually said regarding the Bible? If so that would be diametrically opposed to John 17:17 "Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth."
Diametrically opposed to the Word is no place for a so-called "living voice of the Church" to be.
Unfortunately, you are right.
Isaiah 5:14. Therefore hell hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure: and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it.
I have no clue what percentage of the earth's population end up in Hell, but my own wild guess would be about 95%. Everyone who suffers in Hell, is there because they chose to be in Hell. I am sure most of them didn't think they were choosing Hell over Heaven, but it was their choice nonetheless.
Here is another WILD GUESS. I think most, if not all, would choose to stay in Hell, even if they had a chance to go to Heaven. Sooner could a fish live in a tree, than an unsaved sinner live in the presence of God in Heaven. They would be completely out of their element.
So, I think the last thing we want to do, is shake the dust off our shoes at people, but then again, sometimes we just need to move on to greener pastures. There are many, who just flat out don't want to hear the truth. Their blood be on their own hands.
See you in the clouds bro. 😎
G’day Markus.The weather here is perfect about now,22 degrees C.It’ll be hot here soon enough.
Catholics don't cherry pick quotes to throw at people to prove they are wrong, but if we did, we would counter with that quote with the place where Jesus separated the sheep and goats according to their deeds. Or the place where Jesus said just “saying” Lord Lord won't get them into the kingdom. Or pull whole paragraphs from the epistle of James.
These things are nuances: Catholics believe are saved by God's grace, but most Christian churches insist we have to cooperate with that grace.
too much of the arrogant We are saved only by faith stuff, and you get people like my step son and his mother who are self righteous and make everyone around them miserable, but hey they are saved so see no need to change.
Too much of the arrogant “we are saved by deeds” stuff and you get Hillary Clinton.
That passage is pretty much exactly the same no matter what English translation someone uses. The Douay-Rheims says:
That IS in context and besides, there is no "nuance" needed when the Holy Spirit speaks quite plainly so that even a child can understand.
Catholics don't cherry pick quotes to throw at people to prove they are wrong, but if we did, we would counter with that quote with the place where Jesus separated the sheep and goats according to their deeds. Or the place where Jesus said just “saying” Lord Lord won't get them into the kingdom. Or pull whole paragraphs from the epistle of James.
See there, PLENTY of cherry picken'. You pull snippets out of context and you pervert the word of God by trying to make it sound contradictory. It's NOT. No one denies that there are some parts that even Peter said were "some things hard to be understood", but he also said that is was "which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction." (II Pet.3:16).
We are saved by grace THROUGH faith and NOT because of our works, deeds, merits, acts of love, acts of "cooperation" or our own righteousness. Those who say they have faith but act as those you described show by their lives the kind of faith they have - and it isn't genuine, saving faith. THAT kind will result in a changed life and heart and can't help but be towards good and holiness. BUT, it is NEVER our own acts that save us. It is Christ's righteousness imputed to us. HIS righteousness is what saves us, not our own.
When that happens, let us know so we can see it.
I would LOVE to see whole passages support a Catholic position instead of isolated verses cherry picked from different books.
Yes, "dumb" as in having no literal physical voice, and "difficult" as compared to the "voice" of the church, which as we know, is so clear that there is not disagreement among its members as to its meaning, as well as magisterial level ). For Rome imagines that only what she says the word of God consists of and means is the Truth,
The RC argument for this basically is that an assuredly (if conditionally) infallible magisterium is essential for determination and assurance of Truth (including writings and men being of God) and to fulfill promises of Divine presence, providence of Truth, and preservation of faith, and authority. And that being the historical instruments and stewards of Divine revelation (oral and written) means that such is that assuredly infallible magisterium. Which of course, she declares herself to be.
Thus any who knowingly dissent from the latter must be in rebellion to God.
Yet the church actually began in dissent from those who sat in the seat of Moses over Israel, (Mt. 23:2) who were the historical instruments and stewards of Scripture, "because that unto them were committed the oracles of God," (Rm. 3:2) to whom pertaineth" the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises" (Rm. 9:4) of Divine guidance, presence and perpetuation as they believed, (Gn. 12:2,3; 17:4,7,8; Ex. 19:5; Lv. 10:11; Dt. 4:31; 17:8-13; Ps, 11:4,9; Is. 41:10, Ps. 89:33,34; Jer. 7:23)
And instead they followed an itinerant Preacher whom the magisterium rejected, and whom the Messiah reproved them Scripture as being supreme, (Mk. 7:2-16) and established His Truth claims upon scriptural substantiation in word and in power, as did the early church as it began upon this basis. (Mt. 22:23-45; Lk. 24:27,44; Jn. 5:36,39; Acts 2:14-35; 4:33; 5:12; 15:6-21;17:2,11; 18:28; 28:23; Rm. 15:19; 2Cor. 12:12, etc.)
And as is abundantly evidenced, the word of God/the Lord was normally written, even if sometimes first being spoken, and that as written, Scripture became the transcendent supreme substantive standard for obedience and testing and establishing truth claims as the wholly Divinely inspired and assured, Word of God.
Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
I just gave you three examples from the New Testament.
If you were familiar with the bible you would be aware of what I was quoting and where the three long bible passages came from.
Perhaps you will study the Bible more in your retirement? ... But if I know doctors, they never really retire, they just shift their practice. Stay safe, Lady. You’re a pro-life warrior.
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