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Letter from Rome Would the Vatican Be Happier with Hillary?
Commonweal ^ | November 6, 2016 | Robert Mickens

Posted on 11/07/2016 1:07:42 PM PST by ebb tide

The most bizarre presidential campaign in perhaps the entire history of the United States will culminate Tuesday.

It’s well known that the Democratic nominee, Hillary Clinton, and her Republican opponent, Donald Trump, are both extremely unpopular among many members of their respective political parties.

The U.S. bishops, by and large, have depicted them as equally unacceptable to Catholic voters because the positions of each of the candidates are inimical to various aspects of the church’s social or moral teachings.

But the so-called culture warriors in the American episcopate, like Archbishop Charles Chaput of Philadelphia, have been none too subtle in saying that a candidate who supports legalized abortion (despite the fact it has been the law of the land since 1973) is always worse than one who opposes it. And by doing so, they effectively have signaled support for Trump.

The prospect of a Trump presidency has sent shivers up the spines of most officials in the Vatican. The Americans who work in the Roman Curia, however, are among a small minority of the Rome-based church bureaucrats who would actually like Trump to win.

That does not mean the Vatican will be delighted if Hillary Clinton is the next president. The former first lady and secretary of state has always had a frosty relationship with the Vatican, dating back to the mid-1990s.

In 1994, she led the U.S. delegation to the UN population summit in Cairo and clashed bitterly with the Holy See delegation over efforts to guarantee “reproductive rights” for all women throughout the world. Clinton lost that fight but Vatican officials continued to view her as an adversary a year later in Beijing when she addressed the UN summit on women and repeated her earlier appeal, though in a toned-down manner.

Interestingly, Clinton never once visited the Vatican or met with Pope Benedict XVI during her four years as secretary of state (2009-2013). She was the first person in that office to snub the Holy See in some forty years, dating back to 1969-1973, when William Rogers held the post in the first Nixon administration.

But it seems Vatican officials would be more than willing kiss and make up with Hillary if she were to win the election.

“One of our real concerns is who she will appoint as U.S. ambassador to the Holy See,” one high-ranking official told me.

“You are really that confident that she’s going to get elected?” I asked.

The official replied with a very serious look.

“She has to,” he said. “The other option would be a disaster for the entire world.”

****

Pope Francis has once again deeply disappointed Catholics who believe their church should ordain women to the ministerial priesthood.

During his flight back from a truly groundbreaking visit to Sweden (all he did was became the first pope in history to commemorate the Protestant Reformation at a joint prayer service with Lutheran bishops, including one who was a woman), a Swedish reporter asked Francis if the Catholic Church would ever have women priests.

“Sweden, which hosted this important ecumenical encounter, has a woman as the head of its church. What do you think about that?” the female journalist began.

“Is it realistic to envision women priests also in the Catholic Church in the coming decades? And if not, why? Are Catholic priests afraid of competition?” she concluded.

The pope, as he often does when responding to delicate questions regarding the role and place of women in the Catholic Church, started with a bit of his now-characteristic humor (which, let’s admit it, not everyone finds very funny).

“Reading a bit of the history of the area where we just were, I saw that there was a queen who was widowed three times, and I said, ‘This woman’s strong!’ And they told me: ‘Swedish women are very strong, very capable, and this is why some Swedish men look for a woman of another nationality.’” Francis joked.

And he added with a self-exonerating giggle, “I don’t know if that’s true!”

Then he answered the question. And his response needs to be looked at carefully, beginning with the actual words he used in Italian: Sull’ordinazione di donne nella Chiesa Cattolica, l’ultima parola chiara è stata data da San Giovanni Paolo II, e questa rimane. Questo rimane.

Here is the most literal way of rendering that: “On the ordination of women in the Catholic Church, the last clear word was given by St. John Paul II, and this remains. This remains.”

(The late polish pope, in fact, issued the 1994 apostolic letter Ordinatio Sacerdotalis and concluded with these lapidary words: “I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church’s faithful.”)

But if we translate what Pope Francis said in a less literal way, the gist of his answer was that John Paul II issued the church’s “latest clear teaching” on women’s ordination and this “continues” to be its most recent teaching.

When the Swedish journalist interrupted the pope and asked if that meant forever, he responded, “If we read carefully the declaration of St. John Paul II, it goes in this direction [in questa linea]. Yes.”

Francis was just quoting John Paul—namely, that the late pope intended this to be a definitive teaching that could never be changed. In essence, the current pope once again sidestepped the issue.

And let’s face it, there are never going to be women priests in the Catholic Church until there are first women deacons. At least Pope Francis has begun a conversation about this other, related issue.

That may not be enough for those who believe the refusal to ordain women to the priesthood is an injustice, in both human and divine terms. But a pope who has caused such opposition and rebellion among some more traditional Catholics (mainly in the hierarchy and clergy) merely for allowing women to be participants in the Holy Thursday feet-washing ceremony has to choose his battles wisely. Some of them he must wage quietly or serendipitously.

The fact is that in a little over three years, Francis has effectively begun prying open the proverbial windows of the church, windows his two most recent predecessors had slammed shut in an effort to halt the movement of ongoing reform that continued to gain steam in the early years after the Second Vatican Council.

Whether Francis can succeed in re-implementing the movement of ecclesia semper reformanda and actually effect major reforms in the church’s life and structures (as he envisions in his 2013 document Evangelii Gaudium) will depend on how long his pontificate lasts.

If you are hoping he succeeds, then pray for his ongoing good health.

And also pray that Benedict XVI, the former pope, lives for many more years to come.

Because Francis has told close aides that while he, too, would consider stepping down at some point, he believes it would not be a good idea to have two retired popes living at the same time.

****

Earthquakes.

At least three major quakes dating from last August have caused the devastation of buildings and the loss of hundreds of lives in central Italy.

The most powerful—but, thankfully, not the most deadly—came early last Sunday morning. And those of us living in Rome even felt strong tremors for twenty or thirty seconds.

The town of Norcia, the legendary birthplace of St. Benedict in the hills of Umbria, bore the brunt of this most recent quake. All its churches, including the basilica named for the famed father of monasticism, were destroyed or at least damaged beyond recognition.

The tremors even caused cracks in the structure of the Basilica of St. Paul’s Outside the Walls in Rome, where the church was closed briefly for further inspection.

Seismologists say the ground is likely to continue moving in the weeks and months ahead. Some fear the worst is yet to come.

And there is talk in the Vatican that Pope Francis is also preparing an earthquake of sorts, an ecclesiastical earthquake that will again shake up personnel and office structures. They say his reconfiguration last week of the group of cardinal and bishops who serve as members of the Congregation for Divine Worship was just a slight tremor compared to what’s likely to come.

The changes the pope is planning could amount to a tectonic shift at the Vatican (and maybe throughout the universal Church) or maybe they will only constitute a few shifts here and there.

But we’re probably not likely to see them until after he creates new cardinals at the November 19 consistory or holds the next meeting of his exclusive council of nine cardinal advisors (C9) from December 12 to 14.

Then again, it’s not possible to predict the exact time an earthquake will hit.


TOPICS: Catholic; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: abortion; francischurch; homos
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The prospect of a Trump presidency has sent shivers up the spines of most officials in the Vatican. The Americans who work in the Roman Curia, however, are among a small minority of the Rome-based church bureaucrats who would actually like Trump to win.

Interestingly, Clinton never once visited the Vatican or met with Pope Benedict XVI during her four years as secretary of state (2009-2013). She was the first person in that office to snub the Holy See in some forty years, dating back to 1969-1973, when William Rogers held the post in the first Nixon administration.

But it seems Vatican officials would be more than willing kiss and make up with Hillary if she were to win the election.

“One of our real concerns is who she will appoint as U.S. ambassador to the Holy See,” one high-ranking official told me.

“You are really that confident that she’s going to get elected?” I asked.

The official replied with a very serious look.

“She has to,” he said. “The other option would be a disaster for the entire world.”

****

1 posted on 11/07/2016 1:07:43 PM PST by ebb tide
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To: ebb tide

scr5w the church.


2 posted on 11/07/2016 1:11:01 PM PST by ColdOne ((poochie... Tasha 2000~3/14/11~#MAGA)
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To: ColdOne

I don’t follow the religion thread much, rarely in fact. But it seems to me that the Pope’s odd behavior and politics are the root of what problems may be attributed to the Vatican at large, or the Catholic Religion outside of the other problems it has had in the past. I’ll go away now.


3 posted on 11/07/2016 1:14:14 PM PST by Gaffer
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To: ebb tide

*****The prospect of a Trump presidency has sent shivers up the spines of most officials in the Vatican.*****

What spines?

The Catholic Church thinks abortion is just hunky dory?


4 posted on 11/07/2016 1:14:37 PM PST by sodpoodle (Life is prickly - carry tweezers.)
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To: ColdOne

Catholics are voting 20% in favor of trump. That’s all that matters. God comes before any man.


5 posted on 11/07/2016 1:15:07 PM PST by dp0622 (IThe only thing an upper crust conservative hates more than a liberal is a middle class conservative)
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To: ebb tide

Trump has exposed a whole lot of fakes.


6 posted on 11/07/2016 1:15:11 PM PST by A message
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To: ebb tide

NO. This is just agitprop


7 posted on 11/07/2016 1:17:35 PM PST by PGR88
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To: Gaffer

Many of the catholic churchs here invite invaders. Pope is a Soros Pope. I am Catholic....they have upset me for years.


8 posted on 11/07/2016 1:19:14 PM PST by ColdOne ((poochie... Tasha 2000~3/14/11~#MAGA)
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To: ebb tide
The Vatican is no longer representing THE church! Abrogation of that title was destroyed subsequent to Vatican II.

The present occupant of the pope's quarters is as legitimate a leader as would be Hillary Clinton.

9 posted on 11/07/2016 1:34:39 PM PST by Lewis Stone
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To: ebb tide
This is a stupid question IF anybody has been paying attention. Look what Catholic Nancy Pewlouise, Jon Boehner and Lying Ryan have done to we the people... God says HE hates those that take false oaths and these freaks all took oaths to protect and defend our Constitution... poxs on all of them and their just reward is around the bend.

There is a LONG American History of what has been done to US in the name of Rome... Teddy Kennedy is one of the worst of the worst...

10 posted on 11/07/2016 1:39:58 PM PST by Just mythoughts (Jesus said Luke 17:32 Remember Lot's wife.)
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To: ebb tide
I am pro business. I don't normally diss business because businesses provide jobs that provide livelihoods for people. But it is shocking to me how many big businesses and of course banks are in bed with Hillary and the globalist agenda, despite the fact that publically Hillary and the rats trash businesses in America and claim that businesses are not paying their fair share. It is the same with this Pope. He is all for the globalist agenda. He is all for open borders. He totally minimizes the danger is Islam spreading and Islamic terrorism. Meanwhile, Hillary and the elitist democrats despise the Catholic Church ( as well as evangelicals). But it looks to me like this pope and the top people from the Vatican are in bed with Hillary as well.
11 posted on 11/07/2016 1:43:18 PM PST by Nevadan
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To: ColdOne

Of course. She’s a poster child for abstinence birth control. Who in the world would want her.

red


12 posted on 11/07/2016 2:05:33 PM PST by Redwood71
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To: ColdOne

He’s “my pope” who I’ve come to understand well. I listen to him, and do the opposite.

Being Catholic is all about the Eurcharist - everything else now days, to me, is just Jesuit bullcrap. Jesuits are our version of smarmy college professors


13 posted on 11/07/2016 2:07:37 PM PST by Thickman (Obama - Professor of the United States)
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To: PGR88
Agitprop? Really?


14 posted on 11/07/2016 2:11:20 PM PST by ebb tide (We have a rogue curia in Rome.)
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To: sodpoodle
The Catholic Church thinks abortion is just hunky dory?

No, the "Church" doesn't. The Catholic catechism is unambiguous on that point. The problem is that many individual priests, bishops and cardinals are political leftists who really couldn't care less abortion. Heck, when he was bishop in Spokane, Cupich actively discouraged priests from engaging in pro-life activities. And for that he got promoted to Cardinal of Chicago.
15 posted on 11/07/2016 2:14:51 PM PST by irishjuggler
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To: ebb tide

Well, she can be bought.


16 posted on 11/07/2016 2:18:07 PM PST by Billyv (Freedom isn't Free! Get off the sidelines!)
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To: ebb tide

Outstanding post, thank you.


17 posted on 11/07/2016 2:20:54 PM PST by heterosupremacist (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God ~ Thomas Jefferson)
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To: ebb tide

YES - REALLY.

So you are saying Popes aren’t supposed to meet Democrat politicians from the world’s most important country?


18 posted on 11/07/2016 3:23:07 PM PST by PGR88
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To: sodpoodle

Where are you getting that false information?


19 posted on 11/07/2016 3:42:55 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: PGR88
So you are saying Popes aren’t supposed to meet Democrat politicians from the world’s most important country?

I'm saying they should not give them photo-ops to the politicians' advantage. Pope Benedict XVI refused to give Nancy Pelosi a photo-op when she visited him.

20 posted on 11/07/2016 4:13:12 PM PST by ebb tide (We have a rogue curia in Rome.)
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