Posted on 10/09/2016 1:12:34 AM PDT by BlessedBeGod
St. Gall seems to have been a relatively obscure but quite Catholic medieval monk who lived a remarkable 96 years (550-646 AD). If he had been one of those folks whom these cardinals find congenial such as illicitly married or involved in open concubinage or particularly if he had been a notorious practicing homosexual, one might understand but none of those things seem true and so the choice of names remains a mystery.
In any event, it seems that these miscreants and others were enraged by 35 years of actually Catholic popes and did everything they could to force B-XVI to retire so that these disloyal cardinalitial brats could go to their father below at the impending end of most of their lives, hopeful of a Marxist Social Justice.
Perhaps, a coup could be staged on behalf of Raymond Cardinal Burke or on behalf of a younger militant Catholic prelate determined to cleanse the stables of the utter mess left by a fleeing Frankie or shall we call him Frannie?
You are welcome. It wasn’t that long ago that I started to see the glaring contradictions/changes post Vatican II.
During the present interregnum, Catholics would do well to recognize that the longest serving cardinals still eligible to vote were appointed by Pope Saint John Paul II. The claim of sedevacantists is that we haven't had a real pope since long before that (perhaps the death of Pope Pius XII in 1958 or the death of John XXIII in 1963 or the death of Giuseppe Cardinal Siri known in these circles but not to himself as "Pope Gregory XVII" in 1989). Even John Vennari and "Catholic" Family News make short work of the Siri thesis.
No, you follow the Novus Ordo, Vatican II non-Catholic religion. As a result, I don’t care what you resent nor what you think.
Even after it became obvious the Church hierarchy (and just as importantly, the "Professional Catholics" who actually run many a diocese as they see fit in spite of the Bishop) were falling into heresy, the sheep did not form a circle, their butts together, facing out with their heads down, the Publican view of the world.doing their best musk ox imitation. Far from it.
The sad reality is that there were far fewer Catholics than attendance headcount would lead you to believe well before attendance declined so dramatically. Peer pressure to remain in the Church, a lot of it due to ethnic background, started to evaporate after WWII and as the evaporation rate increased attendance decreased.
As soon as the hierarchy, most of which had already hemmed and hawed rather than resisting the Americanist and Modernist heresies, saw how much the sheep appreciated the clergy not being "heavy handed", they were happy to go along thus ensuring there would be a plentiful supply of skulls to pave the floors and walls of Hell.
As for putting Pope Leo's concerns to rest, the American Bishops in error publicly agreed with one another that they were not in error, did not mean what they had preached and written the way it had been understood, and then continued on their merry way while discussing how odd it was that Leo had addressed a nonexistent heresy.
The clergy here and abroad were under skillful attack by Communist infiltrators, large sums of easy money from anti-Catholic major foundations asking for “minor accommodations”, and especially with positive media and social acceptance or acclaim for those who went along with the agenda of folks like Murry in exchange for continuing to ignore Rome at critical moments.
A very large percentage of the laity in the generation that made up the majority when Vatican II came along, on the other hand, cheered on whoever the media welcomed into the ranks of the “enlightened” Catholics preaching the gospel of going along to get along rather than continuing to stand apart from the rapidly collapsing US non-Catholic substitutes for Christianity.
The laity at the time were already ignoring the Church on many questions of faith and morals well before Vatican II, No covert infiltration or large sums of money required, the siren song of the materialist and increasingly hedonist culture around them was all the incentive they needed. For the most part, they were not blind or blindsided as their not ensuring Tradition and Teaching passed intact to their children as it had been passed on to them intact proves.
It's like the old saying, "you can't cheat an honest man", which is true.
It’s the worst sort of pretense to claim sheep wearing track shoes to be able to bolt at a moment’s notice, proud of the knife and fork they stuck in their own backs just above the fashionable "Free Mutton" wording on t-shirts they wore, were innocents “led to the slaughter”. The laity is at least half the reason the Church in the US so rapidly fell apart and the ordained hierarchy the other half of the reason.
The ordained hierarchy took vows promising not to allow the sheep to have their own way and wonder off on their own or with false, heretic, shepherds and furthermore, to stand for the True Faith come what may. As clergy, they’re guilty of not being shepherds and have doomed themselves by not keeping their vows.
A large percentage of the sheep when the collapse became obvious were and are guilty of being sheep anxious to have a new, lax, shepherd who has no dog to help him, or of only being there in the first place because they were pressured into being there.
Whether such current and former members of Catholic laity are doomed is a case by case question but given the fact that so few still preach the Truth of, "Outside the Church there is no Salvation" I doubt that many of those who have abandoned the Church will return and avoid being doomed right along with the clergy who abandoned their vows and those who flee to little flocks apart from the Church in her hour of need making a great, loud, show of thanking God they’re not sinners like other men as they go.
Alynsky that til the cows come home.
Amend the above to eliminate “the Publican view of the world.”, a bad cut and paste during reordering, from paragraph two.
I care because I resent schismatics posing as Catholics with nothing constructive to offer, no practical path to achieve ANYTHING just a bundle of resentments against the actual Catholic Church. Schismatic phonies slip around outside to clandestinely scrawl their nonsense in grease pencil on the outhouse wall. Many Protestants are honest in their disagreements with the Catholic Church. The schismatics sit in the corner whining over their offended tastes.
I did not miss the greatness of Karol Wojtlywa who became JP II. Sorry about you guys but I don't want any of you back unless you don sackcloth and ashes and perform profound public penance. Until then, I got along without you before I met you and I'll get along without you now.
I think you missed that I said I don’t care what you think.
I sincerely hope and pray that all those who truly wish to be Catholic (and I believe that you do) will recognize that they do not follow the Catholic Faith in the Novus Ordo-Vatican II religion. It is a substantial change from what came before it.
Where are do you get this "large percentage" of laity (which you repeat with no support)? In addition, your very first post said The laity as a whole failed the Church first, this is the result. Where is your proof that it was the "laity as a whole"? And even if there were some Americans who welcomed Vatican II with open arms (and I don't doubt that), how do you explain the rest of the "Universal Church"? When you say the "laity as a whole" you were referring to the "laity as a whole", correct?
Sure.
Someone comments, "sunrise is at 6:32"
and gets a response from you along the lines of, "Now you start with the geocentrism stuff !! What next, Flat Earth?"
Conversion in Reverse - How the Ethos of Americanism Converted Catholics
Thomas A.l. Droleskey, PhD
ISBN 9780692263679
The Clash of Orthodoxies - Law, Religion, and Morality in Crisis
Robert P. George
ISBN 188292694-3
The Crisis of Christendom - A History of Christendom, Vol.6
Warren H. Carroll
ISBN 9780931888-84-7
The Star-Spangled Heresy: Americanism
Solange Hertz
ISBN 0988353709
Apostasy in America
Solange Hertz
ISBN 0988353717
John Courtney Murry, Time/Life, and the American Proposition: How the CIA's Doctrinal Warfare Program Changed the Catholic Church
David A. Wemhoff
ISBN 9780929891-15-6
The Decline & Fall of the Catholic Church in America
David Carlin
ISBN9781928832799
Trojan Horse in the City of God -The Catholic Crisis Explained
Dietrich von Hildebrand
ISBN 0918477-18-2
There are four or five more that would be a factor in my use of the terms you question, but they must have moved to boxes somewhere.
Finish the above books and get back to me if you still disagree with my choice of terms.
There you go again! Poor Pius one note with the fantasy that he and about twelve others are the real Catholics while the rest of us have adhered to his fantasy of “Novus Ordo-Vatican II.” Apparently, you think God Almighty is a massive failure.
Novus Ordite exemplar, I don’t believe God has failed. If I believed that He could contradict Himself and His Truth in His Church, then I would believe that God has failed.
I bet that when you and the other schizzies ponder God, each of you is looking worshipfully in a mirror.
Wow..now that witty comeback is a win for sure! LOL
Meanwhile...you’re still a Novus Ordite who believes ecumenism is a Catholic teaching and was always a Catholic teaching.
I will pray for you.
Therefore those running in circles, hair on fire, shouting about "post Vatican II" and/or "Novos Ordo" anything is their own way of adopting the same Self and Self Alone dogma Luther preached without also adopting the explicit "every man his own Pope" dogma of Scripture Alone that Luther preached exactly like the Bishops and priests that used "The Spirit of Vatican II" as an excuse to ignore Rome and do whatever they pleased.
Anyone insisting they and their little schismatic group are the only ones standing on what the Magisterium & Tradition dictate by abandoning the Church as if Vatican II is binding (when in fact it is not no matter what heretic Bishops with their own agenda say) or claims, "I didn't leave the Church, the Church left me", is blowing smoke or looking for an excuse to avoid fighting the good fight in defense of the Church if not deliberately spreading schism and/or heresy to entertain them self.
At it's heart, that line of reasoning is just a thinly veiled variant of Cafeteria Catholicism.
JMHo, no list of references provided, it's just my opinion
What does the 1983 Code of Canon Law codify? Just pastoral stuff? You should really read what JPII says about it:
He speaks of the “doctrine” of Vatican II over and over again. Vatican II, an ecumenical council, was not merely “pastoral”.
Be sure to include references to experts in Canon law who agree with your point of view as well as arguments to the contrary from equally expert individuals so we can all benefit from your deep knowledge of such matters as you clearly and in detail explain why one or more experts are to be believed while others are not.
Also include a list of the portions of the Code of Canon Law, both the current and the 1917 version, that SSPX is clearly guilty of violating (Let's agree to ignore the debatable ones, why quibble when it's a long list without them?) along with a detailed explanation of why violations of long standing, Canon Law established long before Vatican II is unimportant but what you see as alterations are important.
Last but not least, please clearly explain why abandoning the Church rather than fighting to have portions of the Code of Canon Law you feel are in error corrected and members of the hierarchy who are in error are resisted (thereby helping to grant free reign to the very people you say are in grave error) isn't directly, forcefully, aiding and abetting the very same people you say drove you away from the Church.
You might also toss in a bit about why you seem to believe you're a positive witness for anything while slandering the Church in places where doing so serves the interests of anti-Catholics and anti-Christians far more than it benefits any Christian, Catholic or not.
Oh, and by the by, do you know the three different levels of assent there are and what level of assent to anything from or developed out of Vatican II is required?
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