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To: ealgeone; Mrs. Don-o
Catholic teaching on the perpetual virginity of Mary means Mary entered into a marriage with intent to deny Joseph which is a mortal sin and without intention to have children which is also a mortal sin. Both mean Mary committed sin rendering the immaculate conception null and void. Catholicisms own positions render these two Marian dogmas as incorrect.

"'What about Mary and Joseph? If sex is so important to marriage, then how can you say they were truly married when the Church teaches that Mary was a virgin her whole life?'

"If a couple mutually agrees to not engage in sexual intercourse (or have what’s called a Josephite marriage), then that marriage is valid because they are able to consummate the marriage (which is not the case in impotent unions). But it is also dissoluble, since the two have not become 'one flesh.' (Canon 1142)

"For a marriage to be valid a couple must only be able to have sexual intercourse -- they don’t have to actually engage in sexual intercourse."

http://www.catholic.com/blog/trent-horn/why-the-church-cannot-marry-the-impotent

"Canon 1141 A marriage which is ratified and consummated cannot be dissolved by any human power or by any cause other than death.

"Canon 1142 A non-consummated marriage between baptised persons or between a baptised party and an unbaptised party can be dissolved by the Roman Pontiff for a just reason, at the request of both parties or of either party, even if the other is unwilling."

The situation that you both wrote about and linked to from Catholic sources is speaking of marriages that have been consummated, and thus are not "Josephite", by definition. For marriages that are consummated it is a sin to withhold sex, to plan to not have children, etc.

For those that aren't consummated, by mutual consent, it is not a sin to do (or not do) the aforementioned acts. It's the Catholic claim that both Mary and Joseph chose to live as brother and sister. This does not make their marriage any less valid than the usual marriage. It simply makes it what we call today a "Josephite marriage".

This is the Catholic claim using Catholic definitions as you erroneously tried to do to impunge the dogma of Perpetual Virginity. So this sets that straight. I'll leave it up to you and Mrs. Don-o if you want to continue any debate about the claim itself. I'm not interested in that. I have only posted this to demonstrate the claim that "Catholicisms own positions render these two Marian dogmas as incorrect" is a false statement.

"Catholicism's own positions" do NOT "render" ANY "Marian dogmas incorrect".

423 posted on 06/22/2016 11:25:53 AM PDT by FourtySeven (47)
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To: FourtySeven; ealgeone
"If a couple mutually agrees to not engage in sexual intercourse (or have what’s called a Josephite marriage), then that marriage is valid because they are able to consummate the marriage (which is not the case in impotent unions). But it is also dissoluble, since the two have not become 'one flesh.' (Canon 1142)

If Joseph didn't intend on having sex with Mary, if they were in a mutually agreed upon sexless marriage arrangement, then why did he intend to divorce her when she turns up pregnant?

Canon ain't Scripture. Nowhere does God ever refer to a *Josephite* marriage. That's a complete fabrication by the Catholic church to bolster their arguments in favor of Mary remaining a virgin, which Scripture tells us didn't happen.

427 posted on 06/22/2016 12:14:10 PM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: FourtySeven

Your pope is in disagreement with the rcc. That’s who your issue is with.


469 posted on 06/22/2016 3:39:06 PM PDT by ealgeone
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