Is the Pope Catholic? - The Greatest Schism in Catholic Church History!

Spiritual Food Blogspot ^ | May 10, 2016 | Rev. Joseph Dwight

[BipolarBob]

First, how do you know what had been agreed between Mary and Joseph beforehand
I've experienced marriage for one and the surprise Mary expresses about being pregnant when she knew not man. Do Catholics have some sort of tradition or document about the marriage agreement between two specific people two thousand years ago?
your words sound pretty crass about "the Ark delivered the goods."
You made the Ark analogy, not me. Elevating mankind above their paygrade is never permitted in the Bible. "All have sinned and come short of the Glory of God".
The only Queen Mother referred to is The Church not Mary.
Impossible. Unthinkable.
Only to a Catholic. Did God not give Adam a helpmate and say "It is not good for man to be alone?" Why would He treat Joseph different? Any good reason? No, unless one wanted to make Mary some sort of demi-Goddess.

[Mrs. Don-o]

My whole argument is Scriptural.

Plus, you tell untruths. You say that Catholics worship May, and this is an old, old slander from the author of all slander. It is not true, and you should not repeat it.

There are many instances in Scripture which illustrate that the Biblical use of "brothers" and "sisters" doesn't necessarily mean full siblings from the same mother and father: the terms are used for near kin.

Take Genesis 13:8 for example. Here the word brother is being used to describe the relationship between Abraham and Lot, who were not biological brothers but uncle and nephew:

“So Abram said to Lot, “Let’s not have any quarreling between you and me, or between your herdsmen and mine, for we are brothers” (Gen 13:8 also 14:12).

Although St. Paul writes, “[Jesus] appeared to more than five hundred…brothers at the same time” (1 Cor. 15:6), we need not infer from this verse that Mary gave birth to more than 500 children!

These “brothers” are never once called the children of Mary, although Jesus himself is (John 2:1; Acts 1:14).

None of this is disputed by Protestant Scripture scholars, who are well aware of the Bible’s broad semantic range of "brother".

In context, the most likely scenario is that Joseph, a widower, had other children from a previous marriage, and that there was a cohort of cousins as well, who would have been called Jesus' brothers and sisters.

[Mrs. Don-o]

"I've experienced marriage for one and the surprise Mary expresses about being pregnant when she knew not man."

Now I'm surprised. You had a virginal pregnancy in your family?

"Do Catholics have some sort of tradition or document about the marriage agreement between two specific people two thousand years ago?"

Not at all. But *you're* the one who said that if Mary did not have sexual intercourse with Joseph, she would "breach the marriage contract that both had consented to at the beginning. Unless Mary wanted to breach said contract but that would be a sin." You imply you know what was in Mary and Joseph's contract. Did you see it? I doubt it.

"...your words sound pretty crass about "the Ark delivered the goods."...
You made the Ark analogy, not me." It's not the Ark analogy that's crass, it's the idea, stated by you, that after she was of no use as "Ark," she had no special reason to remain faithful to her Bridal relationship with the Holy Spirit, which we know from Scripture to be a lasting one (Rev. 22:17)- "The Spirit and the Bride say, come." In this passage, the image is both of the Spirit's actual Bride, Mary, the one Our Lord the Holy Spirit overshadowed and impregnated; and also of the Church, because in so many, many instances Mary is the type and image of the Church.

Mary/Church and Church/Mary appears over and over again in the overlapping language of Biblical symbolism. They are the personal and the corporate image of those united to God by faith.

So the "crass" thing is not the analogy between Mary and the Ark of the Covenant. The crass thing is suggesting that once Mary gave birth, she had "delivered the Goods' and was no longer Daughter of the Covenant, Bride of the Spirit, Mother of the Messiah King. (All of which is Scriptural.) In this crass supposition, she could be tossed back like a "surrogate" who completed her contract. As if God would say --- and this is blasphemous --- "I got in there first and got what I wanted, Joseph, now you can have her.") Caling Mary a "demi-Goddess" shows an ignorance of the glorious nature of the "Great Things" which "God who is Mighty" had done for her. Mary is the humble one. Mary is a handmaid. Mary's spirit exults in God her Savior. This is the most beautiful glimpse we get, of how God exalts the humble.

[Mrs. Don-o]

"I've experienced marriage for one and the surprise Mary expresses about being pregnant when she knew not man."

Now I'm surprised. You had a virginal pregnancy in your family?

"Do Catholics have some sort of tradition or document about the marriage agreement between two specific people two thousand years ago?"

Not at all. But *you're* the one who said that if Mary did not have sexual intercourse with Joseph, she would "breach the marriage contract that both had consented to at the beginning. Unless Mary wanted to breach said contract but that would be a sin." You imply you know what was in Mary and Joseph's contract. Did you see it? I doubt it.

"...your words sound pretty crass about "the Ark delivered the goods."...
You made the Ark analogy, not me." It's not the Ark analogy that's crass, it's the idea, stated by you, that after she was of no use as "Ark," she had no special reason to remain faithful to her Bridal relationship with the Holy Spirit, which we know from Scripture to be a lasting one (Rev. 22:17)- "The Spirit and the Bride say, come." In this passage, the image is both of the Spirit's actual Bride, Mary, the one Our Lord the Holy Spirit overshadowed and impregnated; and also of the Church, because in so many, many instances Mary is the type and image of the Church.

Mary/Church and Church/Mary appears over and over again in the overlapping language of Biblical symbolism. They are the personal and the corporate image of those united to God by faith.

So the "crass" thing is not the analogy between Mary and the Ark of the Covenant. The crass thing is suggesting that once Mary gave birth, she had "delivered the Goods' and was no longer Daughter of the Covenant, Bride of the Spirit, Mother of the Messiah King. (All of which is Scriptural.) In this crass supposition, she could be tossed back like a "surrogate" who completed her contract. As if God would say --- and this is blasphemous --- "I got in there first and got what I wanted, Joseph, now you can have her.") Caling Mary a "demi-Goddess" shows an ignorance of the glorious nature of the "Great Things" which "God who is Mighty" had done for her. Mary is the humble one. Mary is a handmaid. Mary's spirit exults in God her Savior. This is the most beautiful glimpse we get, of how God exalts the humble.

[Elsie]

You think Joseph importuned this consecrated virgin...

The jury will disregard.

'consecrated virgin' has not been placed in evidence.

[Elsie]

First, how do you know what had been agreed between Mary and Joseph beforehand, what was in their ketubah?

Oh; I'd say about the same way you do...

GUESSING.

ASSUMING..

Hoping...

[Elsie]

...Covenant Daughter, this Bride of the Spirit, this Queen Mother...

Only THREE made up titles?

You are slipping!

The way it's written:

 

Galatians 4:4-5

But when the set time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under the law, ⁵ to redeem those under the law, that we might receive adoption to sonship.

 

The way Rome teaches it:

 

Galatians 4:4-5

But when the set time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a....

 

Co-Redemptrix, 
Ark of the Covenant,
Cause of Our Joy,

Cause of our Salvation ,
Comfort of the Afflicted,
Destroyer of Heresy,
Ever-virgin ,
Favoured Daughter of the Father,
Gate of Heaven,
God-bearer,
Health of the Sick,
Help of Christians,
Holy Mary,
Holy Mother of God,
Holy Virgin of Virgins,
House of Gold,
Joy of the Just,
Majesty,
Mirror of Justice,
Morning Star,
Most Holy,
Mother Admirable,
Mother Inviolate,
Mother Most Amiable,
Mother Most Chaste,
Mother Most Pure,
Mother of Christ,
Mother of Divine Grace,
Mother of God,
Mother of Good Counsel,
Mother of Mercy,
Mother of Orphans,
Mother of Our Creator,
Mother of Our Redeemer,
Mother of Sorrows,
Mother of the Church,
Mother of the Poor,
Mother of the Word,
Mother Thrice Admirable,
Mother Undefiled,
Mystical Rose,
Nova Eva (the New Eve),
Our Lady of Compassion,
Our Lady of Confidence,
Our Lady of Victory,
Our Lady, Star of the Sea,
Our Mother of Perpetual Help,
Queen Assumed Into Heaven,
Queen Conceived Without Original Sin,
Queen of All Saints,
Queen of Angels,
Queen of Apostles,
Queen of Confessors,
Queen of Families,
Queen of Heaven,
Queen of Martyrs,
Queen of Patriarchs,
Queen of Peace,
Queen of Prophets,
Queen of the Most Holy Rosary,
Queen of Virgins,
Ravisher of Hearts,
Refuge of Sinners,
Seat of Wisdom,
She Who Shows the Way,
Singular Vessel of Devotion,
Spiritual Vessel,
Spouse of the Holy Spirit,
Tabernacle of the Lord,
Temple of the Most Holy Trinity,
Throne of Wisdom,
Tower of David,
Tower of Ivory,
Treasure House of God's Graces,
Untier of Knots,
Vessel of Honor,
Virgin God-bearer,
Virgin Most Faithful,
Virgin Most Merciful,
Virgin Most Powerful,
Virgin Most Prudent,
Virgin Most Renowned,
Virgin Most Venerable          born under the law, ⁵ to HELP redeem those under the law, that we might receive adoption to sonship; sooner or later; and not spend TOO much time in Purgatory.

 

[Elsie]

My whole argument is Scriptural.

No; it is not.

Otherwise you'd post the verses.

[Elsie]

In context, the most likely scenario is that Joseph, a widower, had other children from a previous marriage, and that there was a cohort of cousins as well, who would have been called Jesus' brothers and sisters.

Oh?

Show how THIS one that Rome has advanced is MORE LIKELY than any other.

[Elsie]

You say that Catholics worship May, and this is an old, old slander from the author of all slander. It is not true, and you should not repeat it.

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Ambrose: …constantly pray ‘Open to us, O Mary, the gates of paradise, since thou hast its KEYS. Anselm: It suffices, O Lady, that thou willest it, and our SALVATION is certain.

Antoninus: …souls protected by Mary, and on which she casts her eyes, are NECESSARILY JUSTIFIED AND SAVED. 

Athanasius: …And, thou, O Lady, wast filled with grace, that thou mightiest be the way of our SALVATION and the means of ascent to the heavenly Kingdom.

Bernadine: …all gifts, all virtues, and all graces are dispensed by the hands of Mary to whomsoever, when, and as she pleases. O Lady, since thou art the dispenser of all graces, and since the grace of salvation can ONLY come through thy hands, OUR SALVATION DEPENDS ON THEE.

(Leo XIII: Adiutricem populi, September 5, 1895) — [p. 19, no. 44]

Blosius: To the, O Lady, are committed the KEYS and the treasures of the kingdom of Heaven.

Bonaventure: …the gates of heaven will open to all who confide in the protection of Mary. Blessed are they who know thee, O Mother of God, for the knowledge of THEE is the high road to everlasting life, and the publication of thy virtues is the way of ETERNAL SALVATION . Give ear, O ye nations; and all you who desire heaven , serve, honor Mary, and certainly you will find ETERNAL LIFE.

She says, "He that shall find Me shall find life, and shall have salvation from the Lord.   "Qui me invenerit, inveniet vitam, et hauriet salutem a Domino."

Listen," exclaims St. Bonaventure on these words, "listen, all you who desire the kingdom of God: honor the most Blessed Virgin Mary, and you will find life and eternal salvation."  "Audite qui ingredi cupitis regnum Dei: Virginem Mariam honorate, et invenietis vitam et salutem perpetuam."-psalt. B.V.ps.48.

 

Ephem: …devotion to the divine Mother…is the unlocking of the heavenly Jerusalem.

Fulgetius: …by Mary God descended from Heaven into the world, that by HER man might ascend from earth to Heaven. Guerric: …he who serves Mary and for whom she intercedes, is as CERTAIN of heaven as if he were already there…and those who DO NOT serve Mary will NOT BE SAVED.

Richard of Laurence: Mary, in fine, is the mistress of heaven; for there she commands as she wills, and ADMITS whom she wills.

 

“The Catholic Church has always and with justice put all her hope and trust in the Mother of God.”

(Leo XIII: Encyclical, Supreme Apostolatus, September 1, 1883.) — [p. 32, no. 104]

“... Yet our manner of praying to the Blessed Virgin has something in common with our worship of God so that the Church even addressed to her the words with which we pray to God: ‘Have mercy on sinners.’”

(Leo XIII: Encyclical, Augustissimae, September 12, 1897.) [p. 68; no. 302]

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"Only She Can Help You"
by Father Nicholas Gruner, S.T.L., S.T.D. (Cand.)
In this letter introducing The Fatima Crusader Issue 38, Father Gruner discusses the growing lies and deception about Russia's errors and the consecration of that nation. He also reminds us that, while it is urgent that we be informed about and fight for Our Lady's cause, we must ask for Her help and intercession.

In the Fatima sanctuary, at the exact spot where Our Lady appeared, Father Gruner pays homage to Her while touching the original statue of Fatima. Father Gruner was recently graced with this rare opportunity since normally this sacred image is always protected by a glass covering which completely surrounds it all day long.

Mary Leads Her Servants to Heaven
by St. Alphonsus de Liguori
In this article taken from The Glories of Mary, Saint Alphonsus explains that there are countless souls in Heaven who are there now only because Mary, by Her powerful intercession, led them there. If a soul persists in true devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary, She will certainly lead that soul to Heaven.

 

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The Rosary
by Father Stefano Manelli, S.T.D.
It is greatly important that Our Lady insisted on the Rosary. When at Fatima She spoke of the salvation of sinners, of the ruin of souls in hell, of wars and peace, and of the future of our age. Our Lady indicated and recommended the Rosary as the prayer that saves, that brings peace, that preserves the faith.

Hail Mary, Full of Grace
by Father Stefano Manelli, S.T.D.
It is truly a treasure to have a strong devotion to Our Lady, for it is She who unites us to Jesus and brings us to Heaven, as this article explains.

Mary, Our Life, Our Sweetness, Our Hope
by St. Alphonsus de Liguori
St. Alphonsus de Liguori explains how Mary is our life, how She is our sweetness, and how She is our hope.

The historical record of the worship of Mary accumulated by St. Alphonsus de Liguori who wrote “The Glories of Mary” in the year 1745, which has been since translated into English and printed again and again and again with the full affirmation and imprimatur of the official Roman Catholic Church.  In this book there is the sum of all the glories of Mary which has been vouchsafe to the Roman Catholic Church and the Church itself calls upon all its constituents to give Mary that honor she is due.  She is identified as Mary, our Queen; Mary, our mother; Mary, our life; Mary, our sweetness; Mary, our hope; Mary, our help; Mary, our Mediatress; Mary, our advocate; Mary, our guardian; and Mary, our salvation.  It is said that Mary delivers us from hell, Mary delivers us from purgatory, and Mary leads us to heaven.  And it should be said that de Liguori, who collected all the Marion dogma and devotion, was himself one of the most celebrated and revered authorities in the Roman Catholic Church.  De Liguori was himself a cardinal in life, and a saint in death.

 

Jesus said "Without Me you can do nothing". In this crisis which looms ahead of us, Our Lady has told us that we need Her help, Her intercession. We must ask for Her help with the Rosary and the Scapular.

At Fatima, Our Lady told us very plainly that "Only I can help you". Today more than ever is this so true.

Pray the Rosary and sacrifice yourself for Our Lady.

I urge you to also make some sacrifices as Our Lady of Fatima asked us. For those who are able, do some fasting. If you can, abstain from meat by eating meat only during one meal a day. Try to do this for two days, even ten days or 30 days. Of course we should abstain totally from meat every Friday.

 

 Jesus and Mary — Our Hope

It is so urgent that we reach as many souls as possible before it is too late. Let us be of good cheer and remember the words of Jesus to each of us, "It's never too late to have recourse to Jesus and Mary." That is why it is so important to reach the many millions of souls who do not know this, and who do not know the grave dangers lying in wait for their souls.

No, we must never lose hope. Mary is our hope. She can obtain for us what we cannot by ourselves. Read what St. Alphonsus has to say regarding confidence in Our Lady's intercession in "Mary Leads Her Servants to Heaven". Father Manelli also reminds us of the importance of devotion to Our Lady. (See "Hail Mary, Full of Grace"). Our Blessed Mother tells us to turn to Her in confidence. She tells us repeatedly to ask Her intercession through the frequent fervent praying of the Rosary. (See "The Rosary"). She tells us we must pray the Rosary every day. She wants us to pray it many times a day.

 

http://fatima.org/crusader/cr38/cr38pg2.asp

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"Blessed is he whose interior offers the Blessed Virgin Mary a place of repose." Devotion towards the Blessed Virgin remains in all who are the inheritance of Our Lord; that is to say, in all who will praise Him eternally in Heaven.

O, how many blessed souls are now in Heaven who would never have been there had not Mary, by Her powerful intercession, led them thither. I made that in the heavens there should rise light that never faileth. Cardinal Hugo, in his commentary on the above text of Ecclesiasticus, says in the name of Mary, "I have caused as many saints in Heaven through Her intercession, who would never have been there but through Her ."

...in the words of St. Ambrose, "Open to us, O Mary, the gates of paradise, since Thou hast its keys." "Aperi nobis, O Virgo coelum, cujus claves habes." Nay more, the Church says, that "Thou art its gate." 

St. Antoninus tells us "that this divine Mother has already, by Her assistance and prayers, obtained Heaven for us, provided we put no obstacle in the way."23 Hence, says Abbot Guerric, "he who serves Mary, and for whom She intercedes, is as certain of Heaven as if he was already there."24 St. John Damascene also says, "that to serve Mary and be Her courtier is the greatest honor we can possibly possess; for to serve the Queen of Heaven is already to reign there, and live under Her commands is more than to govern."25 On the other hand, he adds, "that those who do not serve Mary will not be saved; for those who are deprived of the help of this great Mother are also deprived of that of Her Son and of the whole court of heaven."26

 23.  "Coeleste nobis regnum, suo interventu auxiliis, et precibus, impetravit."—Paciucch. Sup. Salve Reg. exc. I.
 24. "Qui Virgini famulatur, ita securus est de paradiso, ac si esset in paradiso."
 25. "Summus honor, servire Mariæ, et de ejus esse familia; etenim ei servire, regnare est; et ejus agi frænis, summa libertas."
 26. "Gens quæ non servierit illi, peribit; gentes destitutæ tantæ Matris auxilio, destituuntur auxilio Filii et totius curi’‘ coelestis."— De Laud. B. M. I. 4.

Cardinal Hugo http://fatima.org/crusader/cr38/cr38pg3.asp 

[Elsie]

These “brothers” are never once called the children of Mary, although Jesus himself is (John 2:1; Acts 1:14).

Golly; if only this rule applied to Rome!!!

Mary is never once called the Mother of GOD, in the Bible; but this does NOT keep Catholics worldwide from repeating it endlessly.

[Mrs. Don-o]

Since neither of us saw the ketubah....

Then you have to go by other reasonable evidence. I submit that when Hannah, Sarah, and Samson's Mom were told of their upcoming miraculous pregnancies, they all assumed that it was by their respective husbands that they'd get pregnant.

Mary doesn't assume that.

She's like that hypothetical bride-to-be at the bridal shower saying, astonished, "Babies? But how shall this be, since I know not man?" Either this bride-to-be doesn't know that the usual baby-making union with the husband is usually expected of the usual wife, OR --- the only other possibility --- she in no way expects to the the usual wife. There must be a reason why.

[Elsie]

Mary/Church and Church/Mary appears over and over again in the overlapping language of Biblical ROMAN symbolism.

[Elsie]

Caling Mary a "demi-Goddess" shows an ignorance...

Yet calling Mary any one of those TITLES I just posted is considered High Praise by Rome.

[Elsie]

Mary doesn't assume that.

Rome has done all the assumin' here.

[Mrs. Don-o]

You want to deny that my examples came from the Bible? Would you like me to supply chapter-and-verse?

And to say "Roman" ignores the fact that a couple dozen other churches have perceived and recognized this same Mary/church symbolism. For the past 2,000 years of unbroken history. And these Christians have always comprised, and still comprise, the majority of Christians on earth.

The puzzlement, then, is why some of the more recent minority Christian newcomers don't get it.

[Elsie]

...hypothetical bride-to-be at the bridal shower...

Missed the bachelorette party; eh?

[Elsie]

Would you like me to supply chapter-and-verse?

You made the claim.

[Mrs. Don-o]

Your answer doesn't address the question. Why doesn't Mary simply accept without surprise what would otherwise be obvious, that the upcoming pregnancy is going to be by the man she's already legally married to?

[Elsie]

...the only other possibility...

The excluded middle; again?