Posted on 05/24/2016 6:49:46 AM PDT by Salvation
Many of you know that I write the Question and Answer column for Our Sunday Visitor. Given the celebration of Trinity Sunday this past Sunday, I thought I might reproduce here on the blog a question/answer regarding the Trinity. It is a fairly common question; perhaps you have it, too. Remember that my answers in the column are required to be brief.
We read in a recent Sunday Gospel (May 1, 2016) that Jesus says that the Father is greater than He (Jn 14:28). Since we are all taught that each Divine Person of the Blessed Trinity fully possesses the nature of God, equally to be adored and glorified, what did Jesus mean by such a statement?” – Dick Smith, Carrolton, TX.
Theologically, Jesus means that the Father is the eternal source in the Trinity. All three persons of the Trinity are co-eternal, co-equal, and equally divine. But the Father is the Principium Deitatis (the Source in the Deity).
Hence, Jesus proceeds from the Father from all eternity. He is eternally begotten of the Father. In effect, Jesus is saying, “I delight that the Father is the eternal principle or source of my being, even though I have no origin in time.”
Devotionally, Jesus is saying that He always does what pleases His Father. Jesus loves His Father; He’s crazy about Him. He is always talking about Him and pointing to Him. By calling the Father greater, He says (in effect), “I look to my Father for everything. I do what I see Him doing (Jn 5:19) and what I know pleases Him (Jn 5:30). His will and mine are one. What I will to do proceeds from Him. I do what I know accords with His will.”
So although the members of the Trinity are all equal in dignity, there are processions in the Trinity, such that the Father is the source, the Son eternally proceeds from Him (Jn 8:42), and the Holy Spirit eternally proceeds from the Father and the Son as from one principal (Jn 15:26).
St Thomas speaks poetically of the Trinity as follows:
Genitori, Genitoque … Procedenti ab utroque … compar sit laudautio
(To the One Who Begets, and to the Begotton One, and to the One who proceeds from them both, be equal praise.)
The Athanasian Creed says the following regarding these processions:
The Father is made by none, neither created nor begotten.
The Son is of the Father alone, neither made nor created, but begotten.
The Holy Spirit is of the Father and of the Son, not made, nor created, nor begotten, but he proceeds from them.
So although equal, processions do have an order. The Father is “greater” (as source), but is equal in dignity to Son and Holy Spirit.
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It takes all kinds for agitpoopery ...
Ousia ( or Homoousios, Homoiousios, and Heteroousios) does not mean “substance”. In fact in many senses it means quite the opposite. In English the best translations would be “essence” or even “being”. Using the word “substance” might lead one to think in terms of physical attributes or qualities.
Furthermore, as the Fathers teach us,
“Three realities pertain to God: essence, energy, and the triad of divine hypostases. As we have seen, those privileged to be united to God so as to become one spirit with Him - as St. Paul said, ‘He who cleaves to the Lord is one spirit with Him’ (I Cor. 6:17) - are not united to God with respect to His essence, since all theologians testify that with respect to His essence God suffers no participation.
Moreover, the hypostatic union is fulfilled only in the case of the Logos, the God-man.”
These considerations make a difference in what and how we believe.
O...
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In Aristotelian philosophy, "substance" does indeed mean "essence" or "being, as opposed to "accidents," which covers all appearances, whether tactile, olfactory, aural, etc. I grant you (obviously) that in modern usage, the words have very different meanings.
“In Aristotelian philosophy, “substance” does indeed mean “essence” or “being, as opposed to “accidents,” which covers all appearances, whether tactile, olfactory, aural, etc.”
The very wise, old Greek godfather of an Orthodox fellow who used to be here on FR told him that the reason we Greeks keep all those statues of gods and ancient philosophers around is to remind us just what Christ freed us from!
Today is the feast of +Justin the Philosopher and Martyr. Here’s the Apolytikion for today:
“Thou didst empty the cup of the wisdom of the Greeks, and thou didst thirst yet again, till thou camest unto the well where thou foundest water springing to eternal life. And having drunk deeply thereof, thou didst also drink the cup that Christ gave to His disciples. Wherefore, O Justin, we praise thee as a philosopher and Martyr of Christ.”
You know, that the West speaks of accidents and substances in some measure lies at the base of the essence/energies/created/uncreated grace controversy between the Church in the East and the Church in the West.
The statues aren’t all they keep — my mother went to high school with a Greek girl named Aphrodite! :)
A lovely girl, no doubt!
LOL! No doubt!
Not even artfully dodged! Well, sadly that's not the convincing I was talking about. Verga took some effort to explain the concept of the triune nature of God and you praised him for it. You claim to be an Agnostic/metatheist who, I presume, is searching for the truth. I applaud Verga for trying to teach you about God and pray that he continues to do so offline. If you are diligently seeking to know the truth, God promises that He will reward you:
But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. (Hebrews 11:6)
What you do with this is up to you.
No, I accused you of provoking people. Elsie has added plenty of value to this thread. That you see only "canned" responses shows me you don't bother to read them all. Another difference is that elsie believes in God and is a follower of Jesus Christ. You, on the other hand, boast of being agnostic (without knowledge) and rarely answer questions much less contribute to the learning experience Religion Forum threads are supposed to foster.
ping to ealgeone. Wrong screen name used.
No. Just old enough that I don’t care what other people think when I state it as it is.
I’m not interested in dancing around making nice.
I asked no one’s opinion and don’t care what people think about how I manage my business. I do not answer to them.
I don’t and I didn’t.
Get over it.
Listen, the next time you reply to a Catholic thread, would you pang me so I can make this exact same reply to you. Oh wait never mind we give the polite replies, you (all) give the snarky ones.
LOL, in one post you showed the falseness to the other poster’s stroking your catholic posse and showed you are not what that other poster imagined. Amazing that
Yeah do a quick re-read.
lol
I think your snark detector is broken.
See metmom’s post 532
No, I’m not going to pang you.
And I’m not going to ping you either.
Think up your own replies instead of using someone else’s all the time. Try some original thought for a change.
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