Posted on 05/22/2016 10:52:54 AM PDT by NYer
NatGeo had some nice(?) things to say about Maryology; too.
"Now, it may be contended that a judgment, with some degree of salvation for all, encourages the sinner to pursue his dark ways. Not so. However generous the judgment, it is measured by our works. Our punishment will be the heavy regret that we might have received a greater reward, a higher kingdom, had our lives conformed more nearly to truth. Such remorse may yield keener pain than physical torture." (Understandable Religion, p. 89)
While Widtsoe is careful not to call a heavenly kingdom "hell", he is nonetheless certain that there will be a keen regret for lost opportunities:
"Humanity will be grouped according to their works in three main divisions: Celestial (like the sun), Telestial (like the moon), Terrestrial (like the earth). Within each group there will be many gradations and divisions, until from the lowest to the highest in all groups there will be a series of gradually ascending glories. There can be no talk of a hell, except for the few 'sons of Perdition,' but undoubtedly the regret for lost opportunities will be keen among those in the lower degrees of glory." (Program of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, p. 226)
Joseph Fielding Smith, on the other hand, considers the tormenting regret experienced in the bottom two heavenly kingdoms and concludes "in that sense it will be hell":
"This earth will become a celestial kingdom when it is sanctified. Those who enter the terrestrial kingdom will have to go to some other sphere which will be prepared for them. Those who enter the telestial kingdom, likewise will have to go to some earth which is prepared for them, and there will be another place which is hell where the devil and those who are punished to go with him will dwell. Of course, those who enter the telestial kingdom, and those who enter the terrestrial kingdom will have the eternal punishment which will come to them in knowing that they might, if they had kept the commandments of the Lord, have returned to his presence as his sons and his daughters. This will be a torment to them, and in that sense it will be hell." (Answers to Gospel Questions, v. 2, p. 210)
This line of thinking is interesting in light of Joseph Smith's following teaching:
"A man is his own tormenter and his own condemner. Hence the saying, They shall go into the lake that burns with fire and brimstone. The torment of disappointment in the mind of man is as exquisite as a lake burning with fire and brimstone" (TPJS, p. 357)
The entry in the Encyclopedia of Mormonism on "Damnation" essentially explains that the bottom two kingdoms of heaven are kingdoms of damnation:
"Just as there are varying degrees and types of salvation, coupled with eternal progression in some areas (D&C 76:96-98; 131:1-4), so are there varying degrees and types of damnation. In LDS doctrine, to be damned means to be stopped, blocked, or limited in one's progress. Individuals are damned whenever they are prevented from reaching their full potential as children of God. Damnation is falling short of what one might have enjoyed if one had received and been faithful to the whole law of the gospel. In this sense, all who do not achieve the highest degree of the Celestial Kingdom are damned, even though they are saved in some degree of glory."
Mormonism really doesn't HAVE a 'hell'.
AFTERLIFE: The Mormon afterlife is divided up into four levels. From the lowest to the highest they are: hell, and then three levels of heaven: the telestial, the terrestrial, and the place where God dwells, the celestial (also called the kingdom of God). The celestial is also divided, the highest level being "exaltation," or becoming a God.
HEAVEN-The Mormon church teaches there are three levels of heaven (three "degrees of glory"):
HELL: A place of torment from which the worst of sinners are resurrected (if they repent) into the Telestial kingdom; only a limited number remain in hell forever, - the devil and the demons and apostates who consciously reject and work against Mormonism.
Mormonism has taught that those in the Telestial kingdom will have paid for their own sins in spirit prison, a temporary hell which serves as a place of purging before entrance into heaven (cf. D&C 138: 58-59).
Orson F. Whitney preached:
"But those who reject the Gospel altogether and are besotted and crimestained---what of them? It is written that they will be thrust down to hell; even the murderer, the liar, the sorcerer, and the whoremonger. They will, in short, be damned. But they will only be damned to the extent justified by their sins. Even for them there is hope, after they have 'paid the uttermost farthing.' They will be punished, as all men must be, for neglect of duty, for transgression of the laws of God; but after they have been punished sufficiently, they will be brought forth and saved in a glory of which the stars in heaven are typical." ("The Three Great Teachers", May 8, 1898; Brian H. Stuy, ed., Collected Discourses 1886-1898, v. 5)
Chapter 41 of the 2009 Gospel Principles manual quotes D&C 19 and concurs the same:
"Also in the spirit prison are those who rejected the gospel after it was preached to them on earth or in the spirit prison. These spirits suffer in a condition known as hell. They have removed themselves from the mercy of Jesus Christ, who said, 'Behold, I, God, have suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent; but if they would not repent they must suffer even as I; which suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit' (D&C 19:16-18). After suffering in full for their sins, they will be allowed, through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, to inherit the lowest degree of glory, which is the telestial kingdom" (Gospel Principles, 2009, p. 244).
Keep up the good work.
I don't think there are words in ANY language that can do justice to the term, "eternal separation from God." I am pretty sure it is INFINITELY worse than anything anyone could ever imagine in a million lifetimes.
I would imagine that even Satan doesn't know exactly what that entails, as he hasn't been there yet. Just my own thoughts. Don't go there. 👎
Which you seem to scorn as superfluous, as if the Holy Spirit could have described the end of the wicked as simply being eternal separation from God, period, but which He never does.
but it is “the bottom line” i.e. eternal separation from God.
No, it is not the final result or outcome, as apart from such descriptions as Scripture eternal separation from God could simply refer to emptiness, solitude, or even unconsciousness. Simple eternal separation from God speaks of the absence of what the redeemed enjoy in glory, but does not speak of the realization of the opposite which the Holy Spirit details.
Why reduce the final result of unbelief to simply eternal separation from God when the Lord goes into such detail as to what that means?
Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; (2 Thessalonians 1:9)
Look at the source ... What does National Geographic know about theology? Like everything else today, secularists will search for and accept whatever material they find to support their views, rightfully anticipating that viewers will not question, much less challenge it. You, my friend, do not march to the beat of the typical audience member. Your question poses a challenge. In so doing, you have breached the sacrosanct mainstream media meme and need to be shackled into compliance. ;-)
Similarly...
Like everything else today, Catholics will search for and accept whatever material they find to support their views, rightfully anticipating that viewers will not question, much less challenge it.
Interesting read, Thank you.
What this Lady describes is much more than merely eternal separation from God, from God’s power. It is a place of torment. She, interestingly, appears to say that she was able to command those in torment there, as if she communicated with them. Would these hapless souls be completely separated from God if they are receiving communications from a Nun visiting them, communicating with them? This imagery seems more suited tot he dogma of Purgatory than to the Lake of Fire.
If you can conceive of it, those in Torment will be so separated from God that He will not even hear their pleas and screams or be aware of their torment.
No, the *biggest* disservice is to argue in terms of red herrings. Purgatory is NOT, and never has been, a "way to heaven" independent of the death of Christ. Everyone in purgatory has been saved by the death of Christ ALREADY, or they never get there.
Hell is reserved for apostates from Mormonism, and them alone.
Is 33 correct Elsie?
No mention of purgatory because there isn’t any. One either goes to hell or heaven depending on whether one has believed in Jesus Christ and has through Him had their sins forgiven. Unforgiven sins mean an eternity of God’s wrath.
No mention of purgatory because there isn’t any. One either goes to hell or heaven depending on whether one has believed in Jesus Christ and has through Him had their sins forgiven. Unforgiven sins mean an eternity of God’s wrath.
Those two later replies should answer your question.
Since Rome stepped in it by proclaiming that SAINTS go to Heaven (instead of just SLEEP; like the bible says) they had to come up with some OTHER storage area for the rest of us slubs!
There’s no need for purgatory for the saved.
If they are saved, then there is no longer any sin to be forgiven for.
When the body of flesh dies, the old nature is gone and all that is left is the new, perfect, pure nature.
There’s NOTHING to be cleansed from because the blood of Jesus took care of that.
If the blood of Jesus didn’t cleanse us from all our sin, then there’s sin left to our account and the soul goes to hell, IOW, is NOT saved from God’s just judgment against sin.
Is this in post 33 correct about mormonism?
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