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To: mrobisr
“..to deny the Sacraments and still claim Christianity is in error and incomplete” So your organization was incomplete for 1200 years since the seven sacraments wasn’t nailed down or necessary for salvation until the COT. I think you need to study your organization’s history without those rose colored glasses and ask yourself why would that be. The sacraments became absolutely necessary because the reformation. The rcc was hemorrhaging members and the rcc was willing to do anything to keep the paychecks coming in. So they made up some new rules at the COT on sacraments and now you preach the lie that it has always been that way. This history is in open view on the rcc website. I’ll even make it easy so you may cut and paste “ council of trent and the sacraments”.

The seven Sacraments are outward signs, instituted by Christ to give Grace....they existed from His time....probably not referred to as the 7 Sacraments, but nevertheless they were. The council of Trent may have, indeed, specified them as such, but they existed long before that.

323 posted on 04/30/2016 9:29:06 PM PDT by terycarl (COMMON SENSE PREVAILS OVER ALL)
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To: terycarl
The seven Sacraments are outward signs, instituted by Christ to give Grace

Let's see the very words of Christ doing what you have just claimed.

341 posted on 05/01/2016 3:39:50 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: terycarl
...instituted by Christ...


John 6:28-29

Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”

Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”

 

 

You may want to read it in context.....


342 posted on 05/01/2016 3:41:21 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: terycarl

“The seven Sacraments are outward signs, instituted by Christ to give Grace....they existed from His time....probably not referred to as the 7 Sacraments, but nevertheless they were. The council of Trent may have, indeed, specified them as such, but they existed long before that.”

Yes outward signs, but they DON’T give grace. Grace ISN’T given by the sacraments, but directly from God himself.

Ephesians 2:8-9 Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)
8 For by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, for it is the gift of God;
9 Not of works, that no man may glory.

Romans 11:6 Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)
6 And if by grace, it is not now by works: otherwise grace is no more grace.

Yes instituted through Christ, but not as a means of salvation. That’s why mystery’s are a better translation than sacraments as we don’t fully understand their meanings as God views them.The entire Church world to include the rcc seen them as outward expressions until the cot. The cot all of a sudden redefined them as a means of salvation. Which means that the rcc was either wrong for the first twelve hundred years or has been wrong for the last five hundred. You can’t have it both ways either the tradition was handed down correctly from the start or the cot was in error which is the correct answer, but you decide for yourself.


368 posted on 05/01/2016 1:09:34 PM PDT by mrobisr ( so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow)
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