[mrobisr]

“The seven Sacraments are outward signs, instituted by Christ to give Grace....they existed from His time....probably not referred to as the 7 Sacraments, but nevertheless they were. The council of Trent may have, indeed, specified them as such, but they existed long before that.”

Yes outward signs, but they DON’T give grace. Grace ISN’T given by the sacraments, but directly from God himself.

Ephesians 2:8-9 Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)
8 For by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, for it is the gift of God;
9 Not of works, that no man may glory.

Romans 11:6 Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)
6 And if by grace, it is not now by works: otherwise grace is no more grace.

Yes instituted through Christ, but not as a means of salvation. That’s why mystery’s are a better translation than sacraments as we don’t fully understand their meanings as God views them.The entire Church world to include the rcc seen them as outward expressions until the cot. The cot all of a sudden redefined them as a means of salvation. Which means that the rcc was either wrong for the first twelve hundred years or has been wrong for the last five hundred. You can’t have it both ways either the tradition was handed down correctly from the start or the cot was in error which is the correct answer, but you decide for yourself.

[terycarl]

Yes outward signs, but they DON’T give grace. Grace ISN’T given by the sacraments, but directly from God himself.

Well of course the Grace comes from God....sheesh...but He sends it through the Sacraments which He Himself ordained

[Elsie]

 As the First Pope wrote in one of His letters:

^{2 Peter 1:1-4     New International Version (NIV)}

 

^{1 Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ,}

 

^{To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours:}

 

^{2 Grace and peace be yours in abundance through the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord.}

 

^{3 His divine power has given us everything we need for a godly life through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness. 4 Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature, having escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.}

 

 

^{How DARE Rome come along later and claim, "Wait a minute!   You need MORE!!!"}