Posted on 04/15/2016 7:25:23 AM PDT by verga
“Until” does not imply cessation. In this case, it does not imply that Joseph ever ceased “not having relations” with Mary.
“Mom, pray for me until I get home” does not mean “then stop praying for me.”
“Until” doesn’t mean that in English, in Greek, in Aramaic, or in Hebrew.
OK...Jesus' brothers were third cousins...Trouble is, you can't play that game with his sisters...Jesus had real sisters...And they weren't nuns...
Read Tim Staples’s BEHOLD YOUR MOTHER.
Far more profitable than unsourced, baseless, niggling tit-for-tat exchanges on the internet. He deals with just about all the relevant Scriptures, all in one book.
Also more profitable than telling me how intellectually dishonest you just know I am.
The Judaizers in Acts 15 and Galatians, who believed Christians had to be circumcised, and were commanded to keep the law of Moses, have their form of Judaizing, you have yours.
In fact, it has been my experience, that most who want to impose your form of Judaizing on Gentiles, that I have met, also do so with the law of Moses.
With the exception of circumcision, that is. Most won’t go that far. Are you one of those who believe that Gentiles have to be circumcised?
Even though I disagree with the conclusion of the article, I really appreciate the effort to find Scriptural support. Every Christian should look to God’s Truth for answers.
While there is plenty of Scriptural support for her having a normal marital relationship with Joseph and producing children with him>
All the rationalization and "interpreting" in the world doesn't change the clear meaning of Scripture.
Psalm69:8 I have become a stranger to my brothers, an alien to my mother's sons.
Matthew 1:24-25 When Joseph woke from sleep, he did as the angel of the Lord commanded him: he took his wife, but knew her not until she had given birth to a son. And he called his name Jesus.
Matthew 12:46-47 While He was still speaking to the multitudes, behold, His mother and brothers were standing outside, seeking to speak to Him. And someone said to Him, “Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside seeking to speak to You.”
Matthew 13:55 “Is not this the carpenter’s son? Is not His mother called Mary, and His brothers James and Joseph and Simon and Judas?”
Mark 6:2-3 And when the Sabbath had come, He began to teach in the synagogue; and the many listeners were astonished, saying, “Where did this man get these things, and what is this wisdom given to Him, and such miracles as these performed by His hands?”... “Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, and brother of James, and Joses, and Judas, and Simon? Are not His sisters here with us?”
John 2:12 After this He went down to Capernaum, He and His mother, and His brothers, and His disciples; and there they stayed a few days.”
Acts 1:14 These all with one mind were continually devoting themselves to prayer, along with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with His brothers.
1 Corinthians 9:4-5 Do we not have a right to eat and drink? Do we not have a right to take along a believing wife, even as the rest of the apostles, and the brothers of the Lord, and Cephas?
Galatians 1:19 But I did not see any other of the apostles except James, the Lord’s brother.
Strong's Concordance
http://biblehub.com/greek/80.htm
adelphos: a brother
Original Word: ἀδελφός, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: adelphos
Phonetic Spelling: (ad-el-fos')
Short Definition: a brother
Definition: a brother, member of the same religious community, especially a fellow-Christian.
Here is a link to the occurrences of the Greek word *adelphos*.
http://biblehub.com/greek/80.htm
The word *sister* (adelphe) in the Greek is the same.
http://biblehub.com/greek/79.htm
The word used is *brother* not *cousin*.
It can't mean a member of the same religious community in the context in which they occur, because then that would mean every man in Israel could be identified as Jesus' brother. So that would not identify Jesus as anyone in particular's brother.
It's not going to mean *brother in Christ* as that concept was not yet in place and the Jews, who knew Jesus as a Jew and knew His brothers as Jews, would not even begin to understand the new birth and what being in Christ meant.
They didn't even understand who JESUS was, much less being a *brother in Christ*.
The only definition left then, is to mean physical brother.
And it would not be *cousin*.
The word for *relative* that is used for Elizabeth is *suggenes*, not *adelphe*.
http://biblehub.com/greek/4773.htm
Strong's Concordance
suggenes: akin, a relative
Original Word: συγγενής, ές
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: suggenes
Phonetic Spelling: (soong-ghen-ace')
Short Definition: akin, a relative
Definition: akin to, related; subst: fellow countryman, kinsman.
Sorry, I consider Tim Staples to be a non-Christian, blown about, as it were.
A THREE YEAR OLD who knows about sex and takes a vow of perpetual virginity?
For real?
It's amazing that people believe the nonsense in the Protoevangelium of James
Oh my, what a try you made! I have not called you dishonest. I HAVE written that you are opinionated beyond reasonable discussion.
Then there is no reason for her to not be in physical relationship with the man to whom she was married.
That about sums it up rather succinctly.
This is one of those cases where tradition trumps Holy Scripture.
Oh yes. I’ve read it. There will be a more accurate breakdown of the Greek as it refutes your position.
For real?
A MAN WALKING ON WATER... WATER TURNING TO WINE... RAISING PEOPLE FROM THE DEAD... COMING BACK FROM THE GRAVE... PROPHETS BEING TAKEN TO HEAVEN ON FLAMING CHARIOTS... who could believe such things?
You have a problem with a three year old pledging herself in service to God with the inspiration to include her body in that pledge. Your problem, not mine.
Go read the first part of Matthew 16, then read Mark chapter 7 & 8, and then proceed to Luke chapter 12 as Galatians has nothing to do with the doctrines of Christ, but all the man made religious doctrines and traditions that have nothing to do with Moses, or for that matter, Christ, as Christ dictated to Moses ALL of His doctrines He says, “not one jot or tittle shall fall” from that which He gave to Moses for our instruction in the doctrines and teachings of Christ.
Your point is as clear as mud.
To be that opinionated is a form of intellectual dishonesty.
So, yes, you called me dishonest.
Read Tim Staples’s book BEHOLD YOUR MOTHER. If he’s wrong, write a book demonstrating precisely how.
Wow. You hate Mary that much, huh?
You expose your catholic desire to raise Mary to goddess-hood. Jesus walked on water, raised people from the dead, fed thousands with five loaves and three fishes, and calmed the weather because He walked the Earth as God with us. Jesus explained this to His disciples in John 14, in essence telling them that the only place/way they could see God The Father Almighty was where He intersected their spacetime limits as Jesus, the man-God. Mary is not a woman-god dess. That fiction belongs in Mormonism wherer Joe Smith put it. She was fully just mortal.
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