Posted on 02/09/2016 8:15:17 AM PST by SeekAndFind
Presbyterian Church (USA) is expecting to see a loss of over 400,000 members between 2015 and 2020, according to a reported internal document.
PCUSA's Office of the General Assembly and Presbyterian Mission Agency Board Executive Committee held a meeting last Wednesday when projected losses were discussed, according to a recent account by the conservative Presbyterian publication The Layman.
"The slide [from the meeting] also showed that COGA is predicting membership losses of 100,000 for both 2015 and 2016," reported The Layman.
"Membership losses for 2017-2020 are projected to be 75,000 each year. That is more than the membership losses in both 2014 (-92,433) and 2013 (-89,296)."
The Layman is the publication for the Presbyterian Lay Committee, a group of theologically conservative Presbyterians whose founding predate the formation of PCUSA.
Presbyterian Lay Committee President Carmen Fowler LaBerge told The Christian Post that she believes the estimated losses for 2015 were "based on preliminary reporting by presbyteries to the Office of the General Assembly."
"We also assume that the 2016 projection of 100,000 is based on information that the OGA has about churches in the process of seeking to leave the PCUSA. So, those numbers are likely pretty good," said LaBerge.
"The 2018, 2019 and 2020 projections of year over year losses of 75,000 members are just that, projections. They are in line with the trend of the past 10 years and there is no reason to think that the trend will reverse itself."
Over the past several years, PCUSA has suffered decline in the number of affiliated congregations and membership counts.
According to the PCUSA's General Assembly Mission Council, in 2000 the denomination had more than 2.5 million members, or approximately 1 million more people than in 2014.
In 2011, membership in the denomination went below 2 million and in 2014 the number of member congregations dipped under the 10,000 mark.
One self-inflicted contribution to the decline has been the general theological direction of the General Assembly especially its growing acceptance of homosexuality.
For example, the 2010 General Assembly approved Amendment 10a, which allowed for local bodies, or presbyteries, to ordain non-celibate homosexuals.
As a result in 2012 a group of conservative Presbyterians founded the Evangelical Covenant Order of Presbyterians, which presently boasts more than 200 member congregations.
Regarding the impact of the projected decline noted at last week's meeting, LaBerge told CP that she thought the impact was "already being felt psychologically in terms of morale."
"No matter what industry you're in, if I told you that half of your franchises were going to close and half of your constituents were going to be gone by the end of 2020 you'd be devastated," said LaBerge.
"The projected membership decline is equivalent to the denomination closing 1,000 churches a year, every year, for five years. That would cut the number of PCUSA churches in the country literally in half."
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Pardon my ignorance, but what's the difference between the PCUSA and the PCA?
I sure don't blame those Elders. Their role in their Church is extremely important, pivotal and emulated by future Elders.
>>Pardon my ignorance, but what’s the difference between the PCUSA and the PCA?
The PCUSA does not believe in biblical inerrancy anymore. It has abandoned the Westminster Confession of Faith. It ordains women and homosexuals. It supports abortion.
The PCA is old-school Presbyterian and the opposite of the PCUSA in those things I listed.
The PCUSA has been taken over at the highest levels by pro-choice liberals who despise Isreal & are sympathetic to gays. They’re making a fortune by charging churches big bucks for their buildings if they want to leave & keep their property. They give their pastors & families abortion coverage in the medical plan.
They probably all voted for Obama.
THANKS. The old-school seems closer to Christianity, even Catholicism, than the PCUSA.
I remember that there was a move to allow Catholic priests to marry. The pundits went out and interviewed wives of those married ministers asking their opinion of married vicars and such.
To the ONE, they answered the same, that their husband simply did NOT have enough time in a day or week to be a good "father" to his flock, husband to his wife and father to his children. The UNmarried, celibate priest was the ONLY sensible way to be.
Of course, there are sinners among those priests, since they are human beings and human beings DO sin, but their celibacy DOES allow them all the advantages of tending to their flock.
But HOMOSEXUALS as men-of-the-cloth? NEVER.
A man MAY have homosexuals feelings but he NEVER has to ACT on them and can always pray to God to take away those feelings he has. He may also be NON-sexual. It doesn't matter since he vows to be celibate. He doesn't take vows of poverty, like nuns do, but he does vow to be celibate.
Women priests/vicars? The Catholic Church made the active decision to follow the Hebrew legacy of male men-of-the- cloth, and have stuck to it. So, for the Catholic Church MALE priests will not be changed. That's a good thing, I believe.
The Orthodox, Ultra Orthodox, Conservative and Progressive Judaisms MUST have some differences about male/female rabbis. I don't know.
I did go to a "batmitzva" once, where the daughter of an acquaintance of mine was getting the female version of a barmitzva. I had never been to one. It was held in a building that was used generally as a Protestant church, but there were no crucifixes or crosses, but it did have the "church-shaped" windows. It was interesting.
As for abortion, I CANNOT fathom the reality of ANY man or woman giving consent to an abortion. Killing one of God's most innocent and vulnerable creations HAS to doom that person to Satan's company for eternity. It HAS to be one of the worst sins in all creation.
I recall reading about women who, at the time for them to give birth, were told that the birth would kill either HER or her BABY. Those women always choose to DIE and to let their baby live. THAT is love. What mother wouldn't do that?
I do believe that if our secular media HAD found a woman who allowed herself to live and her baby to die, it would have made national headlines.
How could ANY woman OR man allow the murder of her/his own flesh and blood? The baby's heartbeat starts at about six weeks. How can ANYONE, parent or doctor, still the heartbeat of such an innocent? I don't get it.
Thanks for your feedback, Bryanw92.
I didn't even know what the "Westminster Confession of Faith" was. I had to "google it." VERY interesting.
Google says that Queen Elizabeth, at 89 years old, is still the "Supreme Governor of the Church of England." I guess ole Charles will be leader ONE of these years.
Popes and kings. At least the pope is elected by the cardinals. No "birthright" there.
>>I didn’t even know what the “Westminster Confession of Faith” was. I had to “google it.” VERY interesting.
I didn’t either when I was switching from Methodist to PCA. But, whenever I started pressing my Methodist pastor for some standards of what we believed, he’d always tell me that “we aren’t confessional”. He said it like it was a bad thing.
Turns out that for a liberal, a Confession is a bad thing because it limits the ways that they can superimpose their politics onto other people’s faith. It keeps the clergy honest.
These are the most pitiful ones of all.
................
Agree. They don’t know how profoundly pitiful they are.
St Paul even talked about this.
1 Corinthians 15:19
If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied.
...........
These poor guys only have a hope in this life.
I’m so confu-u-used!
UMC pastors are in a real bind. Their training is that tolerance and compromise will bring success but they find, in reality, the exact opposite is true.
>>UMC pastors are in a real bind. Their training is that tolerance and compromise will bring success but they find, in reality, the exact opposite is true.
I agree. But it’s even deeper than mere success. Since the are Arminians, they think that every person has a call to God that transcends religion. So, in their mind, you can ignore the gospel and just pass out sandwiches and all people will just understand that it came from Jesus.
My church ran a cold weather shelter for a couple winters. One day, I asked the pastor if we should try and spread the gospel whole they are here and he said, “oh no. That will drive them off.”
That says it all.
When the church lets society dictate church policy, you are headed downward. If you are no different from society, why even be there? You are not offering anything they can’t get everywhere else. It’s like creating another liberal news network.
Liberal churches push political and moral messages as much as conservative churches. They just think they aren’t doing it by referring to it as “social justice”.
whenever I started pressing my Methodist pastor for some standards of what we believed, he’d always tell me that “we aren’t confessional”
Your pastor wasn’t being honest with you. The UMC foundational documents, the articles of religion and the confession of faith, can be found at these links.
http://www.umc.org/what-we-believe/the-articles-of-religion-of-the-methodist-church
http://www.umc.org/what-we-believe/confession-of-faith
That chart is hilarious! “What hath God wrought?!” It would be LOL if it weren’t so SAD.
Thanks for that four-part list—very enlightening. Sooner or later, they’ll learn...
>>Your pastor wasn’t being honest with you.
He was being honest. The church as its articles of faith. The confession of the EUB is more historical than anything binding. In fact, the articles are not binding either. It’s like the Westminster Confession for the PCUSA. They still list it as a foundational document (as the Methodists do with their articles and the EUB confession), but they do not consider themselves bound to it.
In the more orthodox Presbyterian churches, the WCF is a binding document. You can point to it and say, “what you teach goes against this article of the Confession” and that teaching has to stop until evaluated by the Elders.
When I teach a class in my church, I have to sign an agreement explicitly stating what I said in that last paragraph and I have to agree that if I disagree with the any part of the WCF, then I will withdraw from teaching immediately.
That is what “we are Confessional” means. I can teach anything in the UMC as long as it is Trinitarian.
The confessional is an interesting event. As I've gotten older my sins have diminished simply because I KNOW how bad they are for me in EVERY way.
However, when I hear that "Te absolvo, in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit I ALWAYS shed a tear in being overwhelmed by the feeling of absolution, forgiveness and grace bestowed. Priests have the authority to say those words. THEY don't forgive...Jesus does.
Priests aren't allowed to impose politics (or faith) on people. I don't even hear many of them speak out against abortion.
Priests have HEARD IT ALL and aren't surprised or shocked by anything people confess. Besides, what has a priest to gain about imposing politics on anyone for anything?
Not a thing.
>>he confessional is an interesting event. As I’ve gotten older my sins have diminished simply because I KNOW how bad they are for me in EVERY way.
In Protestant Christianity, a Confession is totally different than it is in the Roman Catholic Church. We believe that since we are all part of royal priesthood (1 Peter 2:9), we confess our sins directly to the God so there is no need for special ceremonies or intermediaries
Our Confession is a published Confession of Faith that governs how we interpret Scripture. There are several that have been created over the last 500 years. For us, it is comparable to your Catechism. In fact, the Westminster Confession, which most Presbyterians use includes a Larger and Shorter Catechism that are derived from the articles in the Confession.
http://www.reformed.org/documents/wcf_with_proofs/
I am now an ordained Southern Baptist preacher serving as the Assistant Pastor in an African-American congregation, which incidentally is a 5-point Calvinist congregation. Thanks for the kind words, btw.
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