Posted on 01/28/2016 3:14:07 PM PST by Read Write Repeat
https://youtu.be/XTP0j3p01Dg?t=6m21s
**Just to follow the G-d of Israel. (including shunning any notion of a trinity.)**
So when the Messiah does come, with your understanding of the scriptures, how is he viewed, simply another messenger of God, or the power of God made visible (in the form of a man) to man? Just asking.
I believe that God the Father has appeared to man in various fashions, and spoken also through his prophets. Yet, he promised through Abraham, Moses, David, Isaiah, ect. that he would appear to them in the form of a man.
The ‘form’ is not God, because God is invisible, but the Almighty God in the ‘form’ IS God. And the God of creation has chosen to put all power in this ‘form’, making him the focal point of a world that lives in a material and visible landscape. This ‘form’ has a mind and soul like any other man, as the prophets plainly describe, yet is completely filled with the invisible God. I believe that Jesus Christ is that ‘form’.
It’s a fundamental difference. Jews believe that the Messiah is a man (interestingly he may not even know he’s destined to be the Messiah...) who is chosen/made to know that he is the Messiah, and fulfills certain objective accomplishments:
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/1188356/jewish/Melachim-uMilchamot-Chapter-11.htm
RWR— You mentioned that “Noahide is a Chassidic invention...” If you meant the modern emphasis of non-Jews fulfilling the seven (overarching) principles, then fine... but just to be clear, Maimonides codified the laws for non-Jews already a thousand years ago. From the same chapter in his opus of Jewish law:
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/1188354/jewish/Melachim-uMilchamot-Chapter-9.htm
(Fear not my goyishe friends— when Maimonides mentions executing gentiles, he only means when the full Jewish court is reestablished. We all have training wheels now...) But the actual law (for Jews) is not to promote these laws when the prevailing non-Jewish world just may kill us for doing so. Think the Dark Ages... BUT that is the blessing of America, anyone from any religion can hop up on a soap box. No trinity! One G-d! Yippee! Go to your local synagogue this Shabbos (Saturday) and you will hear the 10 Commandments read in G-d’s original Hebrew with His own musical cantilations (notes, the unique way of chanting the Written Law.)
Maimonides codified the laws for non-Jews already a thousand years ago
Then I say: what does the Torah say? Torah predates Maimonides by a huge margin. Age old debate of laws of man versus the Torah.
The Tanakh says the exact opposite:
So says the Lord, "Keep justice and practice righteousness, for My salvation is near to come, and My benevolence to be revealed."
Happy is the man who does this, The man who will hold fast to it: he who keeps the Sabbath from profaning it and guards his hand from doing any evil.
Let not the foreigner who joined the Lord, say, "The Lord will surely separate me from His people," and let not the eunuch say, "Behold, I am a dry tree."
For so says the Lord to the eunuchs who will keep My Sabbaths and will choose what I desire and hold fast to My covenant,
"I will give them in My house and in My walls a place and a name, better than sons and daughters; an everlasting name I will give him, which will not be discontinued.
And the foreigners who join with the Lord to serve Him and to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants, everyone who observes the Sabbath from profaning it and who holds fast to My covenant.
I will bring them to My holy mount, and I will cause them to rejoice in My house of prayer, their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be acceptable upon My altar, for My house shall be called a house of prayer for all peoples.
So says the Lord God, Who gathers in the dispersed of Israel, I will yet gather others to him, together with his gathered ones.
Isaiah 56.1-8 JPS and Chabad has it here.
Anyone who keeps His Sabbath and His Commandments. Very plain. There's no two instruction sets. But it's okay, I went by the whole thing for a long time and I just needed to read for myself as I learned I can't take anything for granted.
This also doesn't negate everything else Maimonides wrote. We can't get lazy and just have someone else do it for us because we're commanded to read the written word every seven years. I'm sorry, I'm very opinionated on this topic.
Our pastor was talking about using the “best” translations for study. “So while the King James is beautiful, you think we might have learned a bit more about the language in 400 years?”
But yes - the basic message is there.
As goofy as that one Bible is (The Word? The one with no chapters and verses - just a paraphrase), it led my sister (RIP) back to Christ. “It was the first time I could really understand what it was saying!”
I want to be a part of that, and I want it to happen tomorrow. That's why I advocate reading the Tanakh in Hebrew -- not the KJV Old Testament. :)
Which doesn’t change one iota of fundamental Christian doctrine.
Actually the Dead Sea Scrolls match up quite closely to the masoretic text, even closer to the Septuagint. Literal translations of the bible definitely capture the Tanach. In addition, the Apostle Paul tells us that unless someone is indwelt by the Holy Spirit, they cannot truly understand scripture.
“And Jews don’t read the KJV Old Testament. It’s not the Tanakh. That’s the point!”
Jews used to:
http://www.sbl-site.org/publications/article.aspx?ArticleId=185
And some Jews still do:
Apparently you don’t know as much as you might believe.
And it doesn’t matter what Jews read. The Messiah has come and they reject Him.
“If you want to know the truth, you read the Tanakh in Hebrew.”
No. The “Tanakh” is really a modern thing - even the acronym is only a relatively recent invention. Those who want to know the truth read the Masoretic text, the Septuagint for comparison (since early Christians used it) and the Dead Sea scrolls too. In other words, they use all the gifts offered to them by God.
“Everything else is false.”
The Dead Sea scrolls are not false. Again, you apparently don;t know as much as you might believe.
Maimonides’ writings are quintessential Torah observance. What can I do on a Friday morning, with kids on school vacation running around like banshees, a bit of contract work to complete, and 2 meals for 14 people each for Shabbos to prepare.... What can I do to convince you that Maimonides, a fine pharisse, like all current day orthodox Jews, keeps 100% of the actual Law of Moses, exactly as G-d intended, (even without our Temple, temporarily, as He intended that too...) and that your interpretation or rendering of the text, even from a Chabad website, means nothing?
No offense.
Jews,have a great Shabbos! Gentiles, embrace your Creator the G-d of Israel! He gave you seven ways to connect to Him and they enlighten the eyes and make live fulfilling (not to mention eternal.)
The standard Rabbinic TaNa"KH is the Masoretic text.
Of course the most authentic and authoritative text of the Torah is found in the hand-written kosher Torah scrolls found in every Orthodox synagogue . . . hand-written according to the laws delivered from Moses who heard them from G-d. You have heard of "sacred tradition," have you not? I knew you have! Of course, these hand-written scrolls contain only consonants.
The Dead Sea Scrolls are of interest to higher critical scholars with higher critical assumptions (that includes Catholics). They were produced by a sect, the Essenes. You know what a "sect" is, right? It's not just people who think the Tower of Babel actually existed!
“I’ve never heard “mistranslation” used when discussing doctrine.”
I’m guessing you haven’t discussed doctrine with Mormons much?
I’ve already said, I base my comments on my experiences with Mormons, but this should be self-evident I think. After all, they rely on a “translation” of a text like the “Book of Abraham”, done by Joseph Smith, which is denounced as a total fabrication by all legitimate linguists. If they were truly concerned with actual mistranslations, they would have dispensed with that text long ago, so that is proof enough that they don’t have a legitimately scholarly interest in translational errors.
???
The Messiah has come and they reject Him.
Many Christians have this backwards, in majority part to stigmatize.
It isn't rejection, Jews don't accept Jesus. He never met Moshiach criteria, there aren't Moshiach 'do overs', etc.
“It isn’t rejection, Jews don’t accept Jesus.”
Tell these Jews that: “For 2,000 years, Jews have rejected
the Christian idea of Jesus as messiah. Why?” http://www.simpletoremember.com/articles/a/jewsandjesus/
“He never met Moshiach criteria, there aren’t Moshiach ‘do overs’, etc.”
No, He just rose from the dead through divine power. There is no other Messiah. Jews will keep choosing to glom onto dead men like Rabbi Schneerson in false hopes that he is the Messiah.
What can I do to convince you that Maimonides, a fine pharisse, like all current day orthodox Jews, keeps 100% of the actual Law of Moses, exactly as G-d intended, (even without our Temple, temporarily, as He intended that too...) and that your interpretation or rendering of the text, even from a Chabad website, means nothing?
Who am I to tell you what is the correct interpretation? We haven't discussed everything Maimonides wrote, and I could agree with 99.9% of everything else Maimonides interpreted. My opinion is Maimonides contradicts the Tanakh in that instance because it refers to foreigners keeping Sabbath.
We debate because we have freedom given to us by God. :)
That doesn't mean we aren't both Jews, and we both prepare for Shabbat right now (you're cooking, I'm taking a quick break from cleaning).
You wish them to follow seven man-made laws, while I wish them to read Tanakh in Hebrew.
Have a wonderful Shabbat everyone! :)
simpletoremember.com is hardly authoritative.
I maintain there is an important difference between ‘accept’ & ‘reject.’ Admittedly usage -is- quite mixed.
I don’t see Jews glomming onto dead men with Messianic fervor.
Wiki does a decent job of explaining Rabbi Schneerson & Messianism here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menachem_Mendel_Schneerson#Messianism
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.