Posted on 10/23/2015 11:57:28 AM PDT by conservativejoy
I have grave concern about Carson's positions on many issues (illegal immigration, fetal tissue research, foreign policy), but no issue is more concerning to me than how he could be an effective Commander in Chief.
Dr. Carson is an elder in the Seventh Day Adventist Church which has since its founding taught pacifism. Founded in the 1860's during the Civil War, those of the Seventh Day Adventist faith have served in the military in non combatant roles.
Dr. Carson has, I believe rightly so, denounced those of the Muslim faith as qualified to be President, but does he himself have a faith conflict that would render him unable to effectively command our Armed Forces?
I offer this reference as food for thought, from Adventists World.
The Battle
Should Adventists serve in the military?
By Ted N. C. Wilson
The question of military service came up early in the history of the Seventh-day Adventist Church. Officially organized in 1863 during the height of the U.S. Civil War, the new denomination almost immediately had to wrestle with how its members would respond to the call to arms.
Private Roy WAs with other difficult questions, the pioneer leaders studied the issues using the Bible as their guide, and concluded that the position most consistent with biblical principles was noncombatancy (the conscientious objection to bearing arms). The primary reason for this position was that Adventists serving in the U.S. military would be forced to compromise their loyalty to God if they obeyed the commands of their officers. The two Bible commandments most directly involved were the fourth—to keep the Sabbath holy, and the sixth—not to kill.
A Position of Noncombatancy
For a time Seventh-day Adventist congregations helped their young men avoid conscription by paying a commutation fee of $300. But by 1864 the young church had successfully appealed to the United States federal government for an official designation of noncombatancy. This position, updated through the years, states that “noncombatant service” means “(a) service in any unit of the armed forces which is unarmed at all times; (b) service in the medical department of any of the armed forces . . . ; or (c) any other assignment of the primary function of which does not require the use of arms in combat; provided that such other assignment is acceptable to the individual concerned and does not require them to bear arms or to be trained in their use.”1
By taking an official position of noncombatancy, the church opened the way for its members who were drafted into the military to serve in positions where they could bring healing and restoration. Since that time thousands of Adventist men and women have served as medics, nurses, doctors, and other medical professionals in the armed services of their countries. Many others have been able to take civil service positions in lieu of required active military duty.
Conscripted Service
In some countries, however, noncombatancy options are not available, and Adventists are required to serve in their country’s military. Even then, these young believers have sought for ways to be faithful to God while serving their country. During World War II, Franz Hasel, a faithful Seventh-day Adventist in Germany, was drafted into the German army. Suffering all kinds of taunts and abuse from his fellow soldiers and commanding officers because of his faithfulness to God, Franz earned their respect through his excellent marksmanship during training. When sent to the front lines in Russia, however, Franz secretly threw his army-issued pistol into a lake, replacing it with a carved piece of wood in his holster. Of the 1,200 soldiers in his unit, only seven survived the Russian front. Franz was one of them.2
We have to pray for peace—the peace that only Jesus can bring, now and in His kingdom to come, where there will be no more wars.
In the Pacific theater 16-year-old Sigeharu Suzuki was drafted into the Japanese Navy, where he was assigned to the infamous kamikaze unit. Each evening, while his fellow military pilots went out drinking, Sigeharu stayed behind to polish his buddies’ boots. Why? Because his Seventh-day Adventist grandmother had taught him to do something good whenever he could.
Twenty years after the war, during a reunion of the surviving members of the kamikaze unit, Sigeharu learned how shining boots had saved his life. “Every night I saw you shining your fellow soldiers’ boots,” the retired company commander told him, “and whenever your name appeared on the flight register, I put it at the end of the list.”
Voluntary Military Service
In more recent times, voluntary rather than conscripted military service has been the option in many countries. As incentives to serve, governments offer many benefits, including scholarships, career training, financial bonuses, and more. In addition to these benefits, some people have a desire to serve their country as an expression of patriotism or their political values.
The question is: How should we as individual Seventh-day Adventists, and as a worldwide church, relate to voluntary military service?
Gary Councell, director of Adventist Chaplaincy Ministries, addresses this question in his book, Seventh-day Adventists in Military Service: “Though the Seventh-day Adventist Church advocates a noncombatant position, pacifism, military service, or noncombatancy are not tests of church membership. The denomination does not act as the conscience for any member or military commander, but it does seek to inform the conscience and behavior of both, so decisions can be made with a maximum of understanding and thought.”3
Thus, while the official church position is that of noncombatancy—conscientious objection to bearing arms—the decision as to whether or not to serve in the military and bear arms is left to the conscience of the individual. However, the church does not encourage people to join the military for reasons that include the biblical concept of noncombatancy, the difficulty to obtain full Sabbath observance, and other challenges. Regardless of the decision the individual makes, the church is committed to ministering and providing pastoral care and support to all of its members, including those serving in the military, and to their families.
Position Reaffirmed
The official church position of noncombatancy was reaffirmed in the 1950s, and again in an action voted at the 1972 Annual Council of the General Conference. In part, that action reads: “Genuine Christianity manifests itself in good citizenship and loyalty to civil government. The breaking out of war among men in no way alters the Christian’s supreme allegiance and responsibility to God or modifies their obligation to practice their beliefs and put God first. “This partnership with God through Jesus Christ who came into this world not to destroy men’s lives but to save them causes Seventh-day Adventists to advocate a noncombatant position.”4
Heroic Conscientious Objector
Probably the best-known Seventh-day Adventist noncombatant soldier was Desmond Doss, who served as a medic in the United States Army during World War II. Corporal Doss, whose heroic story was told in the 2004 film The Conscientious Objector, is best known for saving the lives of 75 of his fellow soldiers during a fierce battle on the island of Okinawa. Under constant enemy fire, Doss refused to seek cover, but instead carried the wounded soldiers one by one, lowering each one on a rope-supported litter he had devised, using double bowline knots. Each wounded man was lowered to safety, 35 feet below the ridgetop where the battle raged.
This act of courage earned Desmond Doss the highest honor his country could bestow—the U.S. Congressional Medal of Honor. He was the first and one of only three conscientious objectors to ever receive this honor.
The Witness of Peace
Seventh-day Adventists have maintained their historic witness in favor of peace and noncombatancy throughout the 151 years of the church’s existence. This position has not been hidden: in the most public manner possible, church leaders periodically have called on world leaders to avoid conflicts and seek the Prince of Peace. Note this open letter, published three years after the close of World War I on the inside cover of the Advent Review and Sabbath Herald, the church’s official paper. It was signed by the president, secretary, and treasurer of the General Conference: “As Seventh-day Adventists, in common with other religious bodies, we strongly favor a limitation of armaments, and if it were possible in the present state of society, we would favor the abolition of all war among the nations of men. We are forced to this view by the very logic of our belief in Him who is the Prince of Peace, and of our experience as subjects of His kingdom.”5
People of Prayer
As Seventh-day Adventists, we have to be people of prayer. While the world is engaged in battles that can be seen, many invisible but very real battles of the great controversy are going on every day. Satan and his angels are battling against each one of us, striving to at last claim this world as his own.
We have to pray for our countries, wherever we are in the world, and for the leaders of our countries. We have to pray for each other, and for service members, whether they have been drafted or have chosen to serve their country voluntarily. And most of all, we have to pray for peace—the peace that only Jesus can bring now, and in His kingdom to come, where there will be no more wars.
“And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away” (Rev. 21:4, KJV). Let us lift up and proclaim Christ, the Prince of peace and our coming King.
Yep!
I guess I just know the young SDA's who seem to be a lot more liberal about the legalism of it all.
All of them are converts so that may explain it. They really like their writers.
Good point. The young ones I know were born into it, or their parents converted young, so they may not have given it a lot of thought. Incidentally, this is a liability among a lot of evangelical Christians as well.
“Nixon was a Quaker”
Who resigned in disgrace. Your point?
Carson has had cancer....
Eating healthy is fine, but you might want to ask the man to reconcile his faith with armed combat before turning over our military to him.
A radical terrorist doesn’t care whether you do or don’t eat pork, he just wants to cut your head off.
{”Adventists are pharisaical and I really don’t care how long they live.”}
Sometimes the love for our fellow man that is expressed here at FR makes me positively tear up. It’s moving I tell you.
One of coworkers was SDA and he had to have a stent put in his carotid because of a 95% blockage when he was 34. The doctor told him the diet didn’t make any difference. It was all hereditary.
But he could keep a network up like he was a wizard or something. But by 4PM in the winter, he was gone. He wouldn’t even go out to eat or shop during the Sabbath because people had to work to serve him.
We could never go to a Mexican place because everything had lard in it so we ate Indian.
And your proselytizing is tedious.
I'm glad Dr. Carson has a faith in something other than big government. For starters, he could show up for work on Sunday when everyone else has the day off. I have problems on many of his positions, but his faith certainly ain't one of them.
{”man to reconcile his faith with armed combat before turning over our military to him.”}
He was very clear with respect to Muslims that adherence to the Constitution is a requirement for the presidency. He too would meet that requirement.
As a brilliant and well-educated, thoughtful man I am quite sure he has considered the duties of president before undertaking to run.
His Christianity is fine
But read up on him
Were he white he’d be just another soft spoken somewhat conservative doctor
That’s a pretty big issue. We don’t need a pacifist as President.
But when people find out he wants to abolish medicare altogether, Carson will shrink in the polls.
Yes, he has had cancer; Adventists do get cancer (and heart disease, etc.). However, they get them at a dramatically lower rate.
When a group gets disease at a lower rate, this does not mean each and every member of that group never ever succumbs to that disease.
Agreed
I’m not exactly sure where they draw the Pacifist line, but King David followed OT law and was certainly not a Pacifist when it came to defending Israel from the terrorists of his day.
David was also a man after God’s own heart.
Carson can certainly be an effective wartime leader; I am not certain if he would be.
I had no idea of this. This is terrible news and they are hiding it from Christians.
Seventh Day Adventists are in a cult:
They revere their founding prophetess, Ellen G. White, and made this statement in their “Ministry” Magazine of Oct. 1981 and have never retracted it:
“We believe the revelation and inspiration of both the Bible and Ellen White's writings to be of equal quality. The superintendence of the Holy Spirit was just as careful and thorough in one case as in the other”.
Pacifism was definitely not an OT trait. They take that from the NT.
I join you on this exact sentiment. Perhaps his passivist leanings are the reason he has made such anti-RTKBA statements regarding people's right to own assault rifles. But I respect Seventh Day Adventists immensely and wish more of society had their ethical foundation.
Well, I’m glad you’re sure. Some of us have a few unanswered questions.
Any other candidate with a conflict of faith on military combat would have already been questioned about this. Carson seems to get a pass on an awful lot of issues which really doesn’t pass the smell test.
Even my pet goldfish, Louie, would be an improvement over the current traitor.
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