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Who is the Whore of Babylon?
Catholic Stand ^ | October 8, 2015 | Ray Sullivan

Posted on 10/08/2015 2:46:11 PM PDT by NYer

saint peters basilica, rome, papacy, pope

How often have we all heard ill-informed people claim that the “Whore of Babylon” mentioned in the book of Revelation is the Vatican / Holy Catholic Church? Let’s look in the Bible and find out for ourselves, rather than conjecture with our personal opinions.

A Great City

In order to find out who the Whore of Babylon is, Catholics should read the entire bible in context.  The Whore of Babylon is described in Revelation 17:18 as a “great city”:

The woman whom you saw represents the great city that has sovereignty over the kings of the earth.” 

Now we all have to ask ourselves if Vatican City has dominion over any kings of the earth today.  There aren’t that many kings around anymore, for one thing, and even if you transpose the word “president” for “king”, it’s laughable to say that the Vatican has dominion over any president or ruler of a country today, with all of the legalized abortion, homosexual so-called “marriage,” pornography, contraception, divorce and remarriage, etc., that is going on in most countries today.  And in countries that do have kings, like Saudi Arabia, certainly the Vatican has no dominion over Muslim countries.

So which “great city” is John talking about anyway?  The seven hills that the whore sits on with the seven Kings gives us a clue.  It cannot be Vatican City, because the Vatican does not sit on one of the seven hills of Rome, which are Aventine Hill, Caelian Hill, Capitoline Hill, Esquiline Hill, Palatine Hill, Quirinal Hill, and Viminal Hill.  Vatican Hill sits across the Tiber River from ancient Rome, and was a crucifixion site (where Peter was crucified upside down). It was not made part of the city of Rome until the ninth Century, well after John wrote the book of Revelation.  And since we know that five of the seven kings have already fallen in John’s time, one is alive and one is yet to come, the city had to exist in John’s time, first Century AD.  This is all confirmed by Revelation 1:1, which says:

“The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave to him, to show his servants what must happen soon. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John

“Soon” would NOT be centuries later, for sure, but would indicate imminent events.

So this means that the Whore of Babylon is a great city that had to have existed in the first century.  Which city might that be?  Revelation 11:8 gives us the answer:

Their corpses will lie in the main street of the great city, which has the symbolic names “Sodom” and “Egypt,” where indeed their Lord was crucified.

Jerusalem, the city where Jesus was crucified, seems to be the great city, or the Whore of Babylon! But wait a minute – Isn’t Jerusalem the Holy City? How in the world could anyone say that Jerusalem is the Whore of Babylon?

For the record, Jerusalem also sits on seven hills, namely, Scopus, Nob, Mount of Corruption, Old Mount Zion, Ophel, Rock, and New Mount Zion. And at the time of John, Jerusalem did have a lot of power over many kings of the earth (because Jerusalem was the worldwide center for worship of God), as well as being an international center of commerce.

Jerusalem the Harlot

Let’s look elsewhere in the Bible, and in the words of our Protestant brothers and sisters, we will let Scripture interpret Scripture.  For example, in Isaiah 1, God is castigating Israel for its many sins, even referring to Israel as Sodom and Gomorrah in Isaiah 1:10:

Hear the word of the LORD, princes of Sodom!  Listen to the instruction of our God, people of Gomorrah!

In Revelation 11:8 previously mentioned above, we learned that the Whore, or great city, is allegorically called Sodom!  And in Isaiah 1:21 below, God calls Jerusalem a prostitute, which is another word for whore:

“How she has become a prostitute, the faithful city, so upright! Justice used to lodge within her, but now, murderers.”

Israel is also called a prostitute in Jeremiah 3:6:

The LORD said to me in the days of King Josiah: Do you see what rebellious Israel has done? She has gone up every high mountain, and under every green tree she has played the prostitute

Ezekiel 16:2 says that Jerusalem has abominations:

Son of man, make known to Jerusalem her abominations

And these abominations are described by God as being like a prostitute in Ezekiel 16:26-30:

You served as a prostitute with the Egyptians, your big-membered neighbors, and multiplied your prostitutions to provoke me. Therefore I stretched out my hand against you and reduced your allotment, and delivered you over to the whim of your enemies, the Philistines, who were revolted by your depraved conduct. You also served as a prostitute for the Assyrians, because you were not satisfied. Even after serving as a prostitute for them, you were still not satisfied. You increased your prostitutions again, now going to Chaldea, the land of traders; but despite this, you were still not satisfied. How wild your lust!—oracle of the Lord GOD—that you did all these works of a shameless prostitute.

God considered Jerusalem to be one with Him, as a man marries a bride.  But Jerusalem and its people always seemed to going after pagan wives, worshiping false idols like the golden calf, and generally not being true to the covenant God had established with them during the time of Moses. And now, in John’s time, the leaders of Jerusalem were teaming up with pagan Rome (the beast) to not only kill the apostles and prophets, but also to murder the Messiah Himself.

Jesus  Condemns Jerusalem

Jesus Himself condemns Jerusalem in Matthew 23:29-38:

Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites. You build the tombs of the prophets and adorn the memorials of the righteous, and you say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our ancestors, we would not have joined them in shedding the prophets’ blood.’ Thus you bear witness against yourselves that you are the children of those who murdered the prophets; now fill up what your ancestors measured out! You serpents, you brood of vipers, how can you flee from the judgment of Gehenna? 

Therefore, behold, I send to you prophets and wise men and scribes; some of them you will kill and crucify, some of them you will scourge in your synagogues and pursue from town to town, so that there may come upon you all the righteous blood shed upon earth, from the righteous blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, the son of Barachiah, whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar. Amen, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation. 

“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how many times I yearned to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her young under her wings, but you were unwilling! Behold, your house will be abandoned, desolate.

Here we see Jesus foretelling the destruction of Jerusalem by pagan Rome in 70 AD.  Why?  Because they killed the prophets and stoned the ones sent to them.  This should sound familiar, because in Revelation 18:20, 24 we heard that

“Rejoice over her, heaven, you holy ones, apostles, and prophets. For God has judged your case against her.

“In her was found the blood of prophets and holy ones and all who have been slain on the earth.

Apostles and Prophets

So here we see in Revelation that the Whore of Babylon killed apostles and prophets.  Apostles were those that had actually been with Jesus, and prophets only existed up until the the death of John the Baptist, way before the Vatican was established. One trap that some fundamentalists fall into is their sincerely mistaken belief that the Catholic Church wasn’t started until Constantine came along in the 4th Century.  While that isn’t true (we have the writings from the early Church Fathers that confirm that the Catholic Church began with Peter’s commissioning), the following questions have to be asked:

“How can the Whore of Babylon be the Catholic Church, which was allegedly founded by Constantine centuries later, if the Whore had to be around in the first century when the last prophet was killed?”

and

“If the Catholic Church is the Whore of Babylon, exactly which apostles and prophets did the Catholic Church kill?

And who destroyed the Whore of Babylon?

Babylon, or pagan Rome, did, in 70 AD, with the destruction of Jerusalem.  Remember, Babylon (Rome) and its whore, (Jerusalem) teamed up to kill Christ. (In an ironic twist, everything that the High Priest Caiphas said would happen to Jerusalem if Christ lived (the destruction of the nation of Israel), did come to pass, precisely because they killed Christ!) Babylon is an apocalyptic code name for Rome, which symbolized sexual and immoral excess.  Revelation 17:16 says that the ten horns (symbolizing the ten rulers of pagan Rome) will destroy the whore by fire, which is exactly what the Romans did to Jerusalem in 70 AD.  Revelation 17:14 says that the Lamb will conquer them both.  The complete conquering of Rome by the Christians happened in the 4th Century of Catholicism, when Constantine became the first Christian emperor of Rome, and who stopped all of the religious persecutions of Christians with the Edict of Milan in 313 AD. And just as King David conquered pagan Jerusalem and turned it into God’s headquarters, just so, Jesus, David’s successor and the King of Kings, conquered pagan Rome and turned it into God’s headquarters, thus fulfilling the prophecy of Daniel 7:27.

Who is 666?

In numerology, each letter is assigned a value. In Greek, the language of the New Testament, the name Caesar Nero, the emperor alive at the time Revelation was written, adds up to 666.  Nero killed his own brother and mother, and was generally known as the most decadent of all the emperors of Rome. John was trying to give the Christians who were alive at the time hope, by telling them that Jesus would eventually triumph over wicked Jerusalem and pagan Rome. The stubborn Jews of that day, like the murderous Saul, were turning in Christians to the Roman authorities to be tortured and murdered. Thankfully, on his way to Damascus, Saul saw the light of Christ (“the people who walked in darkness have seen a great light,” Isaiah 9:2) and became the saintly Paul. But there was a price to be paid, as Nero not only killed Peter for preaching the truth, but also Paul, who died by being beheaded (he was a Roman citizen, and therefore escaped crucifixion).

Who is the Antichrist?

For the record, the word Antichrist appears nowhere in the book of Revelation! St. John does describe who the antichrist is in 1 John 2:22 – An antichrist is someone who denies that Jesus is the Messiah. For the record, no Pope has ever denied that Jesus is the Messiah. However, this reference does mean that today we do have many secular antichrists among us.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Religion & Culture; Theology
KEYWORDS: catholic
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To: Salvation
It's curious that there is a Babylon near New York City. There is a Magog in Quebec. I don't know if they have significance or not.

Father Herman Kramer studied the Book of Revelation for 30 or so years and wrote his "Book of Destiny" (I have a copy around here somewhere) back in the 1940's or 1950's. It has an imipramatur. Tan Books.

He writes that Babylon is the city of Rome and that it will be destroyed at the time of the end.

Here is a link to what looks like a schismatic Catholic site but it talks about the above book and also some writings of a Father Berry.

“AntiChrist will be Worshiped Freely” Father Herman Kramer

I gave up trying to figure it all out a long time ago.

41 posted on 10/08/2015 5:16:44 PM PDT by Aliska
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To: NYer

Read


42 posted on 10/08/2015 5:58:35 PM PDT by sauropod (I am His and He is mine.)
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To: Salvation
Common knowledge available in multiple reliable historical sources.

http://europeanhistory.boisestate.edu/westciv/reformat/luther/08.shtml
43 posted on 10/08/2015 6:02:21 PM PDT by Jan_Sobieski (Sanctification)
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To: Salvation
Common knowledge available in multiple reliable historical sources.

http://europeanhistory.boisestate.edu/westciv/reformat/luther/08.shtml
44 posted on 10/08/2015 6:02:49 PM PDT by Jan_Sobieski (Sanctification)
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To: donna

Such as liberalism or socialism?


45 posted on 10/08/2015 6:13:33 PM PDT by rabidralph
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To: Jan_Sobieski; Salvation
The Vatican is across the Tiber from the seven hills of Rome. Where are you getting this misinformation?

Common knowledge available in multiple reliable historical sources. http://europeanhistory.boisestate.edu/westciv/reformat/luther/08.shtml

Which only says that Luther "took to referring to Rome as the Whore of Babylon," not as the Vatican sitting on one of the 7 hills, which it does not.

But which itself does not disqualify it from being the Whore of Babylon, as Vatican Hill found its location for over 1100 years within the walls and city limits of Rome. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vatican_Hill

Moreover, the cathedral church of Rome and the official ecclesiastical seat of the Roman Pontiff is not St. Peter's in the Vatican, but the Basilica di San Giovanni, commonly known as St. John Lateran Archbasilica, St. John Lateran Basilica, St. John Lateran, or just The Lateran Basilica, (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archbasilica_of_St._John_Lateran) in Laterano, located near the edge of one of the seven hills, the Cælian) Hill within the old walls of ancient Rome.

I am not even arguing for the church of Rome being Babylon, which is interpretive, but that she is the largest deformation of the NT is abundantly manifest .

Also of interest.

The ancient Romans had several opinions about the derivation of the Latin word Vaticanus.[1] Varro (1st century BC) connected it to a Deus Vaticanus or Vagitanus, a Roman deity thought to endow infants with the capacity for speech evidenced by their first wail (vagitus, the first syllable of which is pronounced wa in Classical Latin). Varro's rather complicated explanation relates this function to the tutelary deity of the place and to the advanced powers of speech possessed by a prophet (vates), as preserved by the later antiquarian Aulus Gellius:

We have been told that the word Vatican is applied to the hill, and the deity who presides over it, from the vaticinia, or prophecies, which took place there by the power and inspiration of the god; but Marcus Varro, in his book on Divine Things, gives another reason for this name. "As Aius," says he, "was called a deity, and an altar was built to his honour in the lowest part of the new road, because in that place a voice from heaven was heard, so this deity was called Vaticanus, because he presided over the principles of the human voice; for infants, as soon as they are born, make the sound which forms the first syllable in Vaticanus, and are therefore said vagire (to cry) which word expresses the noise which an infant first makes".[2] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vatican_Hill

46 posted on 10/08/2015 7:07:27 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Turn to the Lord Jesus as a damned and destitute sinner+ trust Him to save you, then follow Him!)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion; redleghunter; Springfield Reformer; kinsman redeemer; BlueDragon; metmom; ...
“Now we all have to ask ourselves if Vatican City has dominion over any kings of the earth today.” I believe that historically, they at least claimed to have authority to bestow or withhold kingdoms... Time will tell.

Which days many RCs long for.

Canons of the Ecumenical Fourth Lateran Council (canon 3), 1215

Secular authorities, whatever office they may hold, shall be admonished and induced and if necessary compelled by ecclesiastical censure, that as they wish to be esteemed and numbered among the faithful, so for the defense of the faith they ought publicly to take an oath that they will strive in good faith and to the best of their ability to exterminate in the territories subject to their jurisdiction all heretics pointed out by the Church; so that whenever anyone shall have assumed authority, whether spiritual or temporal, let him be bound to confirm this decree by oath.

But if a temporal ruler, after having been requested and admonished by the Church, should neglect to cleanse his territory of this heretical foulness, let him be excommunicated by the metropolitan and the other bishops of the province. If he refuses to make satisfaction within a year, let the matter be made known to the supreme pontiff, that he may declare the ruler’s vassals absolved from their allegiance and may offer the territory to be ruled lay Catholics, who on the extermination of the heretics may possess i t without hindrance and preserve it in the purity of faith; the right, however, of the chief ruler is to be respected as long as he offers no obstacle in this matter and permits freedom of action.

The same law is to be observed in regard to those who have no chief rulers (that is, are independent). Catholics who have girded themselves with the cross for the extermination of the heretics, shall enjoy the indulgences and privileges granted to those who go in defense of the Holy Land . (http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/basis/lateran4.asp, emp. mine)

47 posted on 10/08/2015 8:05:46 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Turn to the Lord Jesus as a damned and destitute sinner+ trust Him to save you, then follow Him!)
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To: EEGator

Flo is the epidemy of Soros.


48 posted on 10/08/2015 8:20:19 PM PDT by GGpaX4DumpedTea (I am a Tea Party descendant...steeped in the Constitutional Republic given to us by the Founders)
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To: bkopto
Was she ever beaten with an ugly stick!

More like a dozen of them.

49 posted on 10/08/2015 8:36:01 PM PDT by Mark17 (Heaven, where the only thing there that's been made by man are the scars in the hands of Jesus)
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To: NYer
Interesting article.

Odd how women fornicating, outside of marriage, are whores but men aren't, whore being female only. Language bias.

50 posted on 10/08/2015 9:48:16 PM PDT by cloudmountain
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To: Mark17
Was she ever beaten with an ugly stick!

We used to say: whupped with an ugly stick, "whupped" being more emphatic, I assume.

Boy, am I showing my age or what.

51 posted on 10/08/2015 9:50:29 PM PDT by cloudmountain
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To: daniel1212

The SEVEN HILLS OF ROME. I haven’t seen a map like that in eons. Thanks for posting.


52 posted on 10/08/2015 9:51:53 PM PDT by cloudmountain
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To: NYer
How often have we all heard ill-informed people claim that the “Whore of Babylon” mentioned in the book of Revelation is the Vatican / Holy Catholic Church? Let’s look in the Bible and find out for ourselves, rather than conjecture with our personal opinions.

Looking in the Bible. Well that's good.

53 posted on 10/08/2015 10:10:40 PM PDT by redleghunter (Truly my soul waiteth upon God: from him cometh my salvation. He only is my rock and my salvation)
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To: cloudmountain
We used to say: whupped with an ugly stick, "whupped" being more emphatic, I assume.

Yes, a whuppin is worse than a whippin.

54 posted on 10/08/2015 10:23:09 PM PDT by Mark17 (Heaven, where the only thing there that's been made by man are the scars in the hands of Jesus)
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To: semaj
From an old source.
55 posted on 10/09/2015 1:37:17 AM PDT by Yosemitest (It's SIMPLE ! ... Fight, ... or Die !)
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To: Yosemitest

Not sure people know how Rome has created another Jesus.so subtle..

And how the world running on a Roman calendar named after a Pope is a really big deal that causes all religion to start with false premises.

But its hard to explain to people how I met Him as Jesus , born on Rome’s December 25, killed on Rome’s Good Friday and raised on Rome’s Easter Sunday, but He didn’t let me stay there..

The true story is more awesome!

And Rome only is in the business of counterfeiting..


56 posted on 10/09/2015 6:45:24 AM PDT by delchiante
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To: daniel1212

As Lewis said, no one will torture you so thoroughly and relentlessly as someone who thinks they are doing it for your good.


57 posted on 10/09/2015 7:29:12 AM PDT by avenir (I'm pessimistic about man, but I'm optimistic about GOD!)
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To: NYer
Jerusalem, the city where Jesus was crucified, seems to be the great city, or the Whore of Babylon!

Ah yes . . . those sophisticated intellectual Catholics are soooo very ecumenical and philo-Semitic--unlike those awful bumpkins in the Bible Belt!

So much for VII's alleged declaration that the "old" covenant is still in effect!

58 posted on 10/09/2015 7:42:21 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (The "end of history" will be Worldwide Judaic Theocracy.)
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To: Salvation
Some people might believe that the United States will be the new Whore of Babylon.

Continents are merely large mountains that rise up out of the sea.

There are seven continents. Seven hills.

Currently the US sits atop those seven hills via culture, economics, and (currently declining) politics.

It cannot be the city of Babylon as the description on her in Rev. 18 does not match anything like that city.

It does match New York, and the US, though.

59 posted on 10/09/2015 7:54:07 AM PDT by ShadowAce (Linux - The Ultimate Windows Service Pack)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion
“Now we all have to ask ourselves if Vatican City has dominion over any kings of the earth today.”

I believe that historically, they at least claimed to have authority to bestow or withhold kingdoms...

The Catholic religion has made that claim for Centuries and has never relinquished the charge...

60 posted on 10/09/2015 8:36:17 AM PDT by Iscool (Izlam and radical Izlam are different the same way a wolf and a wolf in sheeps clothing are differen)
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