Posted on 08/25/2015 6:45:11 PM PDT by NKP_Vet
I wuz talkin’ ‘bout you...
See what Catholic Church Fathers say:
As regards the oft-quoted Matthew chapter 16
• Augustine, sermon:
"Christ, you see, built his Church not on a man but on Peter's confession. What is Peter's confession? 'You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.' There's the rock for you, there's the foundation, there's where the Church has been built, which the gates of the underworld cannot conquer. — John Rotelle, O.S.A., Ed., The Works of Saint Augustine , © 1993 New City Press, Sermons, Vol III/6, Sermon 229P.1, p. 327
Upon this rock, said the Lord, I will build my Church. Upon this confession, upon this that you said, 'You are the Christ, the Son of the living God,' I will build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not conquer her (Mt. 16:18). — John Rotelle, Ed., The Works of Saint Augustine (New Rochelle: New City, 1993) Sermons, Volume III/7, Sermon 236A.3, p. 48.
• Augustine, sermon:
For petra (rock) is not derived from Peter, but Peter from petra; just as Christ is not called so from the Christian, but the Christian from Christ. For on this very account the Lord said, 'On this rock will I build my Church,' because Peter had said, 'Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.' On this rock, therefore, He said, which thou hast confessed, I will build my Church. For the Rock (Petra) was Christ; and on this foundation was Peter himself built. For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Christ Jesus. The Church, therefore, which is founded in Christ received from Him the keys of the kingdom of heaven in the person of Peter, that is to say, the power of binding and loosing sins. For what the Church is essentially in Christ, such representatively is Peter in the rock (petra); and in this representation Christ is to be understood as the Rock, Peter as the Church. — Augustine Tractate CXXIV; Philip Schaff, Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers: First Series, Volume VII Tractate CXXIV (http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf107.iii.cxxv.html)
• Augustine, sermon:
And Peter, one speaking for the rest of them, one for all, said, You are the Christ, the Son of the living God (Mt 16:15-16)...And I tell you: you are Peter; because I am the rock, you are Rocky, Peter-I mean, rock doesn't come from Rocky, but Rocky from rock, just as Christ doesn't come from Christian, but Christian from Christ; and upon this rock I will build my Church (Mt 16:17-18); not upon Peter, or Rocky, which is what you are, but upon the rock which you have confessed. I will build my Church though; I will build you, because in this answer of yours you represent the Church. — John Rotelle, O.S.A. Ed., The Works of Saint Augustine (New Rochelle: New City Press, 1993), Sermons, Volume III/7, Sermon 270.2, p. 289
• Augustine, sermon:
Peter had already said to him, 'You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.' He had already heard, 'Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona, because flesh and blood did not reveal it to you, but my Father who is in heaven. And I tell you, that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of the underworld shall not conquer her' (Mt 16:16-18)...Christ himself was the rock, while Peter, Rocky, was only named from the rock. That's why the rock rose again, to make Peter solid and strong; because Peter would have perished, if the rock hadn't lived. — John Rotelle, Ed., The Works of Saint Augustine (New Rochelle: New City, 1993) Sermons, Volume III/7, Sermon 244.1, p. 95
• Augustine, sermon:
...because on this rock, he said, I will build my Church, and the gates of the underworld shall not overcome it (Mt. 16:18). Now the rock was Christ (1 Cor. 10:4). Was it Paul that was crucified for you? Hold on to these texts, love these texts, repeat them in a fraternal and peaceful manner. — John Rotelle, Ed., The Works of Saint Augustine (New Rochelle: New City Press, 1995), Sermons, Volume III/10, Sermon 358.5, p. 193
• Augustine, Psalm LXI:
Let us call to mind the Gospel: 'Upon this Rock I will build My Church.' Therefore She crieth from the ends of the earth, whom He hath willed to build upon a Rock. But in order that the Church might be builded upon the Rock, who was made the Rock? Hear Paul saying: 'But the Rock was Christ.' On Him therefore builded we have been. — Philip Schaff, Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1956), Volume VIII, Saint Augustin, Exposition on the Book of Psalms, Psalm LXI.3, p. 249. (http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf108.ii.LXI.html)
• Augustine, in “Retractions,”
In a passage in this book, I said about the Apostle Peter: 'On him as on a rock the Church was built.'...But I know that very frequently at a later time, I so explained what the Lord said: 'Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church,' that it be understood as built upon Him whom Peter confessed saying: 'Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God,' and so Peter, called after this rock, represented the person of the Church which is built upon this rock, and has received 'the keys of the kingdom of heaven.' For, 'Thou art Peter' and not 'Thou art the rock' was said to him. But 'the rock was Christ,' in confessing whom, as also the whole Church confesses, Simon was called Peter. But let the reader decide which of these two opinions is the more probable. — The Fathers of the Church (Washington D.C., Catholic University, 1968), Saint Augustine, The Retractations Chapter 20.1:.
7 Catholics chures in Asia were a MESS!
I’ve been to many Protestant weddings where NO alcoholic beverages were served.
Remind me; as my reminder circuitry fails to function a LOT these days!
STUDY to show thyself approved...
(You probably meant than...)
And, yet, there were TWO. Seems to be a specified number to me.
Seems like I may not be the one suffering from a poor education. Or maybe it's just a lack of accuracy.
Regardless, it's clearer now that two felt that way, not an unspecified number larger than two.
You were wrong. I was right all along. That won’t change.
Keep telling yourself that as long as it makes you feel better. Fine by me.
Hoss
“7 Catholics chures in Asia were a MESS!”
Your keyboarding is a mess.
Now let's listen to the crickets.
“And, yet, there were TWO. Seems to be a specified number to me.”
I said “some”. I posted two examples. And again, “some” means an indeterminate number more than “one”. I posted the definition yet you insist on ignoring what it actually means. I was right all along. You were wrong. That won’t change.
One note Johnnies may know a few more notes than only the one, and the few they most love to continually pound upon, yet have no real standing to criticize improvisational jazz musicians; when those turn more towards set pieces, occasionally miss a key-stroke
Me as well. I was just noting in fairness that some had served alcohol.
Thank you for admitting an antiCatholic bias. Do you think people might be similarly biased against your faith community ?
Yes. Yes you did. And then you ignored your own posting of the definition. Two is a specific number. It's not indeterminate. And yet you appeal to a definition that you seem to fail to adhere to in the argument.
As I said, if repeating over and over and over, "I was right all along. You were wrong. That won't change" makes you feel better, then by all means continue. Although it does vaguely remind me of Stuart Smalley's mantra of, "I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and doggone it, people like me!"
Hoss
Only if you have faith without any works of any kind...
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
None of the quotes you posted contradict the fact that Augustine recognized papal authority. Certainly Augustine didn't see a contradiction.
AugustineAugustine was the Bishop of Hippo and in communion with Rome. He could not have rejected the authority of the pope and have remained a bishop."Among these [apostles] Peter alone almost everywhere deserved to represent the whole Church. Because of that representation of the Church, which only he bore, he deserved to hear ‘I will give to you the keys of the kingdom of heaven’" (Sermons 295:2 [A.D. 411]).
"Some things are said which seem to relate especially to the apostle Peter, and yet are not clear in their meaning unless referred to the Church, which he is acknowledged to have represented in a figure on account of the primacy which he bore among the disciples. Such is ‘I will give unto you the keys of the kingdom of heaven,’ and other similar passages. In the same way, Judas represents those Jews who were Christ’s enemies" (Commentary on Psalm 108 1 [A.D. 415]).
"Who is ignorant that the first of the apostles is the most blessed Peter?" (Commentary on John 56:1 [A.D. 416]).
In these forums you've proven yourself to be an intelligent, critical thinker. You write statements that are organized and straightforward. You clearly articulate what you believe and you offer reasonable substantiation for your opinions and conclusions.
That's not the case for some others.
The title of this thread is "Hating Catholics–America’s ONLY Accepted Prejudice" - the title emphasizes the absolute impossibility of any other kind of accepted prejudice by using the word "only." The title even highlights this exclusivity by capitalizing the word "ONLY."
Critical thinkers like you have the ability to immediately recognize the likelihood that this is a false statement simply because of the word "only." This is a basic critical thinking skill that even children learn at an early age.
Here is an outtake from a guide to taking a test. The guide is aimed at 4th graders:
The following two groups of words may provide clues to help students choose the correct answer when they have to guess on true/false and/or multiple-choice tests.While it may be true that hating Catholics* is an accepted prejudice among some, it is not and accepted prejudice for America as a whole. It is certainly not the only kind of prejudice that is accepted in certain discrete cultural or socio-economic circles.
FALSE WORDS
always everything completely never everyone exactly necessarily only exclusively "definitely not" totally must "without exception" "no matter what" all everybody nobody none "no one" invariably impossible every absolutely forever1. On a true/false test, the student should guess “false” if one of these words is in the statement.
2. On a multiple-choice test, an answer choice that has one of these words may be a clue that this choice is not the correct answer.
Example:
a. always lives in the ocean.
* b. usually eats fish
c. never hunts at night
d. America’s ONLY Accepted Prejudice (I admit , I added that because I have a sense of humor.)
In deed, is there any kind of prejudice that is universally accepted?
*For the record: I do not hate Catholics. I've been clear all along about my distinction between catholics and catholocism.
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