Posted on 08/21/2015 7:07:55 AM PDT by Salvation
There is a common Protestant claim that there is one (sole) mediator between God and Man—Jesus. Therefore, they say, asking the saints to pray for us is useless, wrong, and maybe even sinful. Those who object, usually cite some of the following texts:
To this claim, we should first answer that we do not teach a substitutional mediation in invoking the saints, as if we were trying to go to the Father apart from Jesus’ mediation.
Rather, we speak of a subordinate mediation, in which we seek the prayers of the saints, or of one another. For indeed we could have no communion with them or one another if it were not for Jesus Christ, who as the Head of the Body, the Church, unites all His members and facilitates our communion with one another.
Objectors seem to speak of there being one mediator in an absolute sense, excluding any other possible interaction or any subordinate mediation. But consider that if there is only one mediator in an absolute sense, then no one ought to ask ANYONE to pray for him; and neither should the objectors attend any church, read any book, listen to any sermon, or even read the Bible (since the Bible mediates Jesus’ words to you).
A “mediator” is someone or something that acts as a “go-between,” acting to facilitate our relationship with Jesus. And though Jesus mediates our relationship to the Father, He also asked Apostles, preachers, and teachers to mediate, to facilitate His relationship with us.
Thus Jesus sent Apostles out to draw others to him. St. Paul says, How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? And how can anyone preach unless they are sent? As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!” Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ (Rom 10:14-15, 17).
And thus Jesus has His relationship with us mediated through His Word and through the Apostles and others who announce that Word and draw us to Him.
But since some Protestants say that there is absolutely only ONE mediator, and no subordinate or deputed mediators, there is therefore no need to ask ANYONE or ANYTHING to mediate. So should they not burn their Bibles, stop asking anyone to pray for them, and seek no advice, since NO ONE can mediate a single thing? No one can do this because there is, as they say in an absolutely unqualified sense, only ONE mediator—one and only one.
But for those of us who see that there is a subordinated mediation in service of Christ’s supreme mediation, the prayers of others, preaching, and teaching all make sense. And just as the Bible can mediate His presence and will, or as a preacher can mediate His word, so too can the prayers of others (including the Saints) convey my prayers to Him. And Jesus can mediate my prayers to the Father and give graces to me by mediating them through others.
Consider the analogy of the body, since the Church is Christ’s Body. Jesus has one Body and all the parts are connected through the Head, who is Jesus. Now consider your own body. All the members of your body have communion and unity through your head, your mind. There are different ways to have interaction with others. Perhaps someone will reach you through your ears by speaking, or through the sense of touch by tapping you on the shoulder, or visually by waving. Various members of your body facilitate (mediate) interaction with others in different ways, but it is all facilitated through the head of your body, your mind. So, too, do I confidently expect to reach Jesus in different ways: directly, or through one of His members (realizing that He Himself facilitates it).
And thus for us Catholics, our relationship with Jesus is a rich tapestry of relationships with all the members of His body, those who are with us here and now as well as those who have gone on before us but remain members of the one Body, the Church, with Christ our Head.
This isn’t a Daily Occurrence and it (the original article) is not Catholic Bashing.
To repeat. When a person dies, only their body turns to dust.
Their soul is fully alive and is judged by Christ and sent to heaven, hell or purgatory.
While you irritate me pushing blasphemy, I hold back so much trying to avoid offending many Creepers....
but, I know your heart is in the right direction..
We ask the saints to pass our prayers on.
Have you asked anyone to pray for you now?
Two different subjects.
Jesus is the sole mediator and high priest before God in cleansing us of our sins and making us holy before God.
Others, including the Holy Spirit, may act as mediators and pray on our behalf as intercessors but it is Jesus who is the lone source for salvation.
It seems quite clear to me. Not sure why anyone else would have an issue. As far as praying to Saints, have at it. But the prayer should be towards God the Father in Jesus’ name.
Condescending remark?
That is his way of saying it is wrong. I have studied Biblical hermeneutics as well as apologetics and know the shell game when I see it. This is the same argument the the LDS church engages in. "Don't believe what is written, you are too stupid for that."
Romans 3:30
Acts 4:12
1 Corinthians 8:6
Among others...
As a FORMER Catholic, tell me why in God’s Holy Name would I want to “sit down with a Priest” to get my questions answered, when I can kneel in prayer and open His Holy Word and get it straight from My Father’s Mouth?
My point is that polemical posts like this one are not helpful, no matter which side they come from, if we wish to promote unity of spirit among professing Christians of all kinds on FR. The line between controversy and “bashing” is very hard to distinguish. If “Catholic bashing” is forbidden, it seems to me that Catholics on FR should reciprocate by avoiding the use of material that is openly critical toward Protestants. There’s way too much at stake these days for Catholics and Protestants on FR to be wasting their energy like this.
the saints are not mediators, they are lobbyists
Let’s get off the anticatholic kick. I’m a died in the wool Baptist, but I get more encouragement from Father John on Fox News than anyone. All I want is orthodoxy and adherence to one’s Biblical faith. All of us have doctrinal pecularities and traditions that may need to be examined in light of the Word. Deep in Catholicism is the embedded Christ and His sacrifice for our sins.
They are dead and inaccessible to you without God’s will to make it so.
Yes and thus inaccessible to you without His say so.
??
The souls of the dead are very alive.
It’s their bodies that are dead.
1Th 4:13
Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope.
1Th 4:14
For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him.
1Th 4:15
According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep.
To be clear, St. Paul is talking about the dead.
And here’s another suggestion: It’s clear that Msgr. Pope was writing this “for us Catholics” (his words). So maybe it would be better, if you must post things like this on FR at all, to use a Catholic Caucus designation, since it is clear that the Monsignor was assuming that his readers would be sympathetic to his stance and just need more equipping.
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