Replies

I didn't say that the words of the Lord ARE the Lord, but that they are inseparable from Him. We learn this when He says - to people who believed in Him but would go no further - "If ye abide in my word, then are ye truly my disciples". And, "Why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?"

We learn it from the Jews, who had "the oracles of God", but didn't believe them and so rejected their Messiah: "For if ye believed Moses, ye would believe me; for he wrote of me. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?"

How is it that some say, "I know Jesus," but disregard what He says? The apostle John has this to say about such people:

"He that saith, I know Him, and keepeth not His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."

Does that sound like anyone you know? The FR RF is filled with them.

In contrast are those who obey the Lord:

"And he that keepeth His commandments abideth in Him, and He in him."

And here:

"He that abideth in me, and I in him....If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you....If a man abide not in me..."

This is not some mystical cohabitation of two beings in the same body. This is the submissive relationship of the disciple to his Master, and the inseparableness of the the Master and the teaching.

Some claim to be Christians, not understanding that only disciples are worthy of that name. A disciple sits at his Master's feet, yielding to the Master to be taught and molded according to His will. He discards his own opinions and ideas, to be replaced with only what the Master provides.

By contrast, many come to the Scriptures to find support for their preconceived ideas and opinions. These may originate from one's upbringing, or persuasive preachers, or one's own experience, etc. Whatever the source, no misconception can be corrected until one looks to the Scriptures, not for confirmation of what he believes, but to be instructed in what to believe.

The Jews had preconceptions about the Messiah and His kingdom. And because He didn't meet their expectations, they rejected and killed Him. Many people today are no different.

This is not some mystical cohabitation of two beings in the same body. This is the submissive relationship of the disciple to his Master, and the inseparableness of the the Master and the teaching.

You no doubt refer to this:

I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
(John 15:5)

However, you present a false dilemma. No one disputes that the disciple is a follower of Jesus in terms of obedience. I know of no one here who has ever made that argument. Of course we obey Jesus. It is our delight to live in the love of God and love of neighbor in all we do.

But this kind of life is not anything that comes naturally to a lost sinner. It is flat out impossible without the new birth. It is flat out impossible without the "mystical cohabitation" of two beings with each other. And the apostolic teaching confirms this, in exquisite detail!

Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
(1 Corinthians 3:16)

What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
(1 Corinthians 6:19)

And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
(2 Corinthians 6:16)

Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. That good thing which was committed unto thee keep by the Holy Ghost which dwelleth in us.
(2 Timothy 1:13-14)

And the saying pleased the whole multitude: and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Ghost, and Philip, and Prochorus, and Nicanor, and Timon, and Parmenas, and Nicolas a proselyte of Antioch:
(Acts 6:5)

Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is. And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit; Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;
(Ephesians 5:17-19)

But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
(Romans 8:9-11)

But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
(Galatians 5:18)

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
(Galatians 5:22-23)

And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
(Galatians 4:6)

There is no escaping the fact that this life of obedience we live is driven by our supernatural relationship with Christ. We really are new creations. Anyone who has been raised from spiritual death to newness of life in Christ can testify to this reality. It is not just compliance with rules. It is a God-powered life.

Do we live up to those standards all the time? John says if we say we have no sin we are liars. So rather than contradict the apostle of Jesus, we must concede that we still sometimes sin. That doesn't make us any less a child of God, though it does subject us to chastisement.

As for the spiritual state of FR RF participants, I believe it is distinctly against the rules of the forum to "make it personal" in that way. It is above my pay grade to determine the relationship other people have with God in Christ. We all form opinions, because as humans, that's what we do. But I'd rather not clutter up our discussion of the issues by prattling on about things no one but Good can know.

It's like CS Lewis once said. It isn't the things I don't understand about God that bother me. It's the things I do understand that bother me. Sharp insight, that.

Peace,

SR