Replies

This is not some mystical cohabitation of two beings in the same body. This is the submissive relationship of the disciple to his Master, and the inseparableness of the the Master and the teaching.

You no doubt refer to this:

I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
(John 15:5)

However, you present a false dilemma. No one disputes that the disciple is a follower of Jesus in terms of obedience. I know of no one here who has ever made that argument. Of course we obey Jesus. It is our delight to live in the love of God and love of neighbor in all we do.

But this kind of life is not anything that comes naturally to a lost sinner. It is flat out impossible without the new birth. It is flat out impossible without the "mystical cohabitation" of two beings with each other. And the apostolic teaching confirms this, in exquisite detail!

Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
(1 Corinthians 3:16)

What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
(1 Corinthians 6:19)

And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
(2 Corinthians 6:16)

Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. That good thing which was committed unto thee keep by the Holy Ghost which dwelleth in us.
(2 Timothy 1:13-14)

And the saying pleased the whole multitude: and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Ghost, and Philip, and Prochorus, and Nicanor, and Timon, and Parmenas, and Nicolas a proselyte of Antioch:
(Acts 6:5)

Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is. And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit; Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;
(Ephesians 5:17-19)

But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
(Romans 8:9-11)

But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
(Galatians 5:18)

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
(Galatians 5:22-23)

And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
(Galatians 4:6)

There is no escaping the fact that this life of obedience we live is driven by our supernatural relationship with Christ. We really are new creations. Anyone who has been raised from spiritual death to newness of life in Christ can testify to this reality. It is not just compliance with rules. It is a God-powered life.

Do we live up to those standards all the time? John says if we say we have no sin we are liars. So rather than contradict the apostle of Jesus, we must concede that we still sometimes sin. That doesn't make us any less a child of God, though it does subject us to chastisement.

As for the spiritual state of FR RF participants, I believe it is distinctly against the rules of the forum to "make it personal" in that way. It is above my pay grade to determine the relationship other people have with God in Christ. We all form opinions, because as humans, that's what we do. But I'd rather not clutter up our discussion of the issues by prattling on about things no one but Good can know.

It's like CS Lewis once said. It isn't the things I don't understand about God that bother me. It's the things I do understand that bother me. Sharp insight, that.

Peace,

SR

The nature of our abiding in Christ, and Him in us, must be understood by what we're told in the Scriptures, and not from what we imagine or want it to be. This is why I posted the following excerpt earlier:

"He that abideth in me, and I in him....If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you....If a man abide not in me..."

Note also the following parallel passages, one of which you quoted:

"And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit; Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord"

"Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly; in all wisdom teaching and admonishing one another with psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts unto God." - Col. 3:16

There is no great mystery in how Christ and the Holy Ghost abide in the disciple, and he in Them; no confusion as to how They lead him, and keep him from sin. Consider what the Psalmist said in Ps. 119:

"Wherewith shall a young man cleanse his way?
By taking heed thereto according to thy word...

Thy word have I laid up in my heart,
That I might not sin against thee...

My soul melteth for heaviness:
Strengthen thou me according unto thy word...

I will lift up my hands also unto thy commandments, which I have loved;
And I will meditate on thy statutes...

Thy word is a lamp unto my feet,
And light unto my path."

There is no mystery in how we're led by the Spirit. It's the same way as David was led by God in the passage above. He loved the commandments and statutes of God.

God gave the Law and the Prophets to Israel. Then Jesus came preaching, and then sent the Holy Spirit. Every word of Scripture is from God, delivered either by inspired men of the Old Testament, or Jesus, or the Holy Spirit in the apostles and other writers of the New Testament.

But some people aren't satisfied with God's way. Unlike David, to them God's Word is a dry thing, or sterile, or dead. They are not moved by it to praise and obey Him. So they want something more.

And some even say that the sinner cannot come to God without some mystical moving of the Holy Spirit. But it is faith that a sinner needs - the faith described in Heb. 11, the faith that trusts in God and yields to Him, the faith of David who turned to God's Word to hear what he ought to do and then did it.