Posted on 07/26/2015 8:55:19 AM PDT by MHGinTN
Here is yet more information, for those who miss the Rapture and are here after the event. This is for people, not any particular congregation of people. Please, think about it ...
Au contraire grasshopper...You think you are going to find some truth relating to the topic outside of the scriptures??? You'd have better luck trying to squeeze one of your popes thru the eye of a needle...
The mystery of the Rapture is found in scripture and only in scripture...Pull up a chair and learn something...
Ugh, I can’t even get through the first minute of that video. He just separates a bunch of verses, which all talk of the Second Coming, into groups, and then says half of them talk about the “rapture” instead. This isn’t analysis, it’s just inserting his preconceived notions into the text.
For example, he claims 1 Thes. 3:13 refers to the Second Coming, while 1 Thes. 2:19, he lists as a “rapture” text. Yet, both verses use the exact same language to refer to Christ’s return, used by the same author only a few paragraphs apart! The only way you could determine these didn’t refer to the same event is if you studied the text already believing there must be two separate events and arbitrarily tried to find some way to distinguish them.
If untrue and I did not like you I might be telling it just to give you a bad rep which would be slander.
But what if God inspired you to write it??? And Peter recognized and accepted it as God inspired scripture???
Are you serious???
>>Very much so. You said the marriage of the Lamb takes place before the tribulation, you, then, have the burden of proof to produce the scripture in Revelation that actually SAYS THAT. If you can’t produce that scripture, then it must take place where Revelation SAYS it will – Rev. 19.
You admit there’s a LONG list of inferences that the rapture is pre-trib...
>> But that is all they are – inferences. That’s the point. In every one of them pretribs INFER two parousias, two comings. Which is not there at all, they only imagine it there, due to the presuppositions they bring to their Bible. There is really only one parousia, yet they see two everywhere. As if they have bifocals on or something.
Here’s another inference... (the last trump)
>>To INFER that 1 Cor. 15:52 refers to a pre-tribulation rapture, as pretribs all do, when the tribulation is not even mentioned in the passage, now THAT is an inference. Another in that long list of pretrib inferences I was talking about. Makes me wonder if you know what an inference is. If the post-trib sounding of the trumpet in Matt. 24:29-31 isn’t the “last” trump, I don’t what else you’d call it.
Being near??? Works for me and the Rapture...
>>The entire JW fiasco is based on that “come near” you are talking about (“parousia”), when Jesus supposedly came invisibly to them in 1917. Wrong “come near,” of course, but so is yours. The true “come near” is when Jesus “comes near” to us, meeting him on his descent to the earth, 1 Thess. 4, to rule and reign over it for a thousand years. To read a mystical pretrib event into the word “parousia” is…, well, here goes, another inference.
One (parousia) where Jesus ‘meets’ us in the air and we are caught up and the other (parousia) where Jesus lands on earth.
>>You are only making my point here, that pretribs actually believe in two parousias, two second comings of Jesus Christ, when the Bible does not use this terminology at all. The way to get around this, is to propose a “two stage second coming.” But where does Paul set this forth? It ain’t there. In that case, we’ll just have to INFER it, right? Inferences again.
This thread being evidence, with the times of antichrist very close, whether or not we get raptured out of here before the tribulation is becoming more intense by the day. What everybody needs, and you need, is scripture that actually and unequivocally spells out an additional second coming in black and white. And not an inference. Else all you have is a theory.
We DO have it black and white, of course, it’s right there in front of you. No need to infer anything. All you have to do is just believe Jesus (Matt. 24:29-31). Like I said, all these passages you see inferring two second comings, are really talking about the same one Jesus set forth.
No it doesn't...It infers that he was aware of at least one trumpet that would be blown numerous times...Rather than debate it here's a page with an explanation that handles the debate much better than I could...If you are interested...
The first coming is when God was manifest in the flesh as a baby, on the earth...The second coming is when Jesus comes back to the earth the second time to finish the prophecy that was not fulfilled at the first coming...
At the Rapture Jesus does not come to the earth...Therefore there is no third coming...Jesus doesn't come here...We go THERE...
1 Thessalonians is clarified in 2 Thessalonians, especially chapter 2. Never read them separately.
3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.
Acts 24:14&15 14 But this I admit to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect I do serve the God of our fathers, believing everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets; 15 having a hope in God, which these men cherish themselves, that there shall certainly be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.
“both the righteous and the wicked.”
John 5
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
Two Resurrections
25 Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. 26 For just as the Father has life in Himself, even so He gave to the Son also to have life in Himself; 27 and He gave Him authority to execute judgment, because He is the Son of Man. 28 Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, 29 and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.
Jesus is speaking of the resurrection of all who died, righteous and unrighteous. It is inclusive. In Revelation, the first resurrection at His return includes only those who have died in faith, having been sealed by God.
Revelation 20
4 Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of [b]their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.
I study book by book, cover to cover. Then I use a concordance. I read the whole chapter. If it is still discordant, I read the whole book.
Have nice day
But what if God inspired you to write it??? And Peter recognized and accepted it as God inspired scripture???
The pre-trib rapture is stunningly deceptive. Unless one does a complete reading of scripture without a guide, simply taking notes of what each book says, it is easy to simply parrot what you hear that has been cherry-picked.
Another thing that bothers me is the word anti-Christ. There are three involved. An anti-Trinity, the dragon, the beast, and the false prophet. There are great signs and wonders. No healing, no feeding, no words of eternal hope. Probably just redistribution of wealth after the owners are murdered.
Read “Jesus Freaks.”
That’s a terrible inference.
2 Thess 2:1 Now, brothers, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and our gathering together to him, we ask you not to be quickly shaken in your mind, nor yet be troubled, either by spirit, or by word, or by letter as from us, saying that the day of Christ had come.Let no one deceive you in any way. For it will not be, unless 1) the departure comes first, and 2) the man of sin is revealed, the son of destruction, he who opposes and exalts himself against all that is called God or that is worshiped; so that he sits as God in the temple of God, setting himself up as God. Don't you remember that, when I was still with you, I told you these things? Now you know what is restraining him, to the end that he may be revealed in his own season.
For the mystery of lawlessness already works. Only there is one who restrains now, until he is taken out of the way.{reference 1 above] Then the lawless one will be revealed[Reference 2 above], whom the Lord will kill with the breath of his mouth, and destroy by the manifestation of his coming; even he whose coming is according to the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 1and with all deception of wickedness for those who are being lost, because they didn't receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. Because of this, God sends them a working of error, that they should believe a lie; that they all might be judged who didn't believe the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
The departure comes before the revealing and then after the revealing the strong delusion, then the final wraths are poured out upon the unbelievers who would rather believe the lie than be saved by faith in Christ.
Excellent work. I’ll be reading all night. However, simply applying Occam’s Razor would be better, because it is simpler. :) The resurrections are the keys.
The Greek word is apostasia and is easily seen as apostacy, besides it is also used in Acts 21:21 “forsake”
So explain then who inhabits the earth during that thousand year reign of Jesus Christ...
I’ve been focusing on “parousia, but you are right, the resurrections are THE key, and more simple, Occam’s Razor for sure.
The verb form is used in several places and is often meaning to depart as thourhg a doorway. In the text it is a noun with ‘the’ preceding, denoting a thing or event. In the first several translations of the Bible the word departure was use to translate ‘apostasia’ Not until the Douay Rheims Bible was the different meaning applied, with ‘revolt’.
Have nice day
Actually, the Rheims Bible. A few later non-Catholic translations used departing,. as in ‘the departing’.
I don’t see how you get one trumpet blown numerous times from “last trump”. You can’t have a “last trump” without previous trumps, and the fact that a specific event is said to occur at the same time as that “last trump” means that this trumpet must sound at one specific time, other than multiple times. If it was blown multiple times, then you would have to have multiple “raptures”, otherwise the prophecy is false. There’s really no logically getting around that.
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