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Locked on 07/23/2015 5:47:09 PM PDT by Jim Robinson, reason:
some people refuse to get it |
Posted on 07/21/2015 4:48:44 PM PDT by Salvation
Pure sarcasm and snark run rampant on the rest of the forums. And I’m not objecting to it. Sometimes, it’s half the fun.
I’m not surprised that it oozes over here, too.
The best response is to roll your eyes and move on, not responding with what you’re REALLY thinking.
Can you ever resist adding fuel to the fire?
I know I am making a long post (two commentary sources on the verse you question) but I hope it is worth your time.
Thanks for taking the time to read them
What follows is copied from Jamieson, Fausset, and Brown (commentary on 2 Cor 5:10)
10. appear-- rather, "be made manifest," namely, in our true character. So "appear," Greek, "be manifested" (Col 3:4; compare 1Co 4:5). We are at all times, even now, manifest to God; then we shall be so to the assembled intelligent universe and to ourselves:for the judgment shall be not only in order to assign the everlasting portion to each, but to vindicate God's righteousness, so that it shall be manifest to all His creatures, and even to the conscience of the sinner himself.
receive-- His reward of grace proportioned to "the things done," etc. (2Co 9:6- 9; 2Jo 8). Though salvation be of grace purely, independent of works, the saved may have a greater or less reward, according as he lives to, and labors for, Christ more or less. Hence there is scope for the holy "ambition" (see on 2Co 5:9; Heb 6:10). This verse guards against the Corinthians supposing that all share in the house "from heaven" (2Co 5:1, 2). There shall be a searching judgment which shall sever the bad from the good, according to their respective,deeds, the motive of the deeds being taken into account, not the mere external act; faith and love to God are the sole motives recognized by God as sound and good (Mt 12:36, 37; 25:35- 45),
done in his body-- The Greek may be, "by the instrumentality of the body"; but English Version is legitimate (compare Greek, Ro 2:27). Justice requires that substantially the same body which has been the instrument of the unbelievers 'sin, should be the object of punishment. A proof of the essential identity of the natural and the resurrection body.
And this is copied from ESV Study Bible
5:10 the judgment seat of Christ. The "judgment seat" (Gk. bēma) was the tribunal bench in the Roman courtroom, where the governor sat while rendering judicial verdicts. Remains of such a bēma exist in the Corinthian forum today (see Acts 18:12–17 and Introduction to 1 Corinthians: The Ancient City of Corinth). In the coming age, Christ will judge as God the Father's representative, ruling the kingdom the Father has given him (see Rom. 14:10–12; etc.). so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done . . . whether good or evil. This underscores the principle that present- day actions have eternal consequences. All Christians will appear before the eternal judgment seat of Christ, to receive "what is due" to them for the deeds that they have done in their earthly life. It is debated, however, (1) whether the aim of this judgment is to determine the measure of reward that the Christian will receive in the age to come; or (2) whether the aim is to provide demonstrative evidence regarding who is lost and who is saved. Because the context of Paul's statement refers back to both the believer's hope for the resurrection (see 2 Cor. 5:1, 4) and to the reward of "glory beyond all comparison" (see 4:16–18), it would seem that both aims are in view. Thus, with regard to the first case, many interpreters hold that the believer's deeds will provide public evidence to indicate the measure of rewards that the believer will receive, corresponding to the believer's "obedience of faith" (acts of service, love, and righteousness; cf. Rom. 1:5; 16:26). In the second case, some interpreters hold that the believer's deeds will also provide public evidence brought forth before the judgment seat of Christ to demonstrate that one's faith is real—that is, public evidence, not as the basis for salvation, but as a demonstration of the genuineness of one's faith. Paul therefore makes it his aim to "please" Christ (2 Cor. 5:5–9), because the extent to which one does this corresponds to the measure of rewards that one will receive (see Matt. 6:20; Luke 19:17, 19; 1 Cor. 3:12–15; 1 Tim. 6:19; Rev. 22:12), likewise giving evidence for the genuineness of one's faith. Paul is confident that genuine believers will pass Christ's judgment, since the new covenant ministry of reconciliation has brought them under the life- transforming power of the Spirit—based on the forgiveness of their sins through faith in Christ alone, all of which is the result of God's grace alone (see 2 Cor. 1:12, 22; 3:6, 8–9, 18; 4:4–6, 15; 5:5, 14–15, 16–21; 8:19; 9:8, 14; etc.).
Great logic; excellent question.
It will be fun to stand next to Catholics in Heaven. They're going to be pleasantly surprised.
They will see the grace of God first hand when they learn that Hebrews 10:10 is true, Christ's sacrifice "ONCE for ALL" was sufficient, and there's no such thing as Purgatory. Catholics can start enjoying their heavenly reward from the first moment.
How have I disrespected the beliefs of Catholics?
By stating my own that disagree with them?
Then by that reasoning, any Catholics who disagrees with me, disrespects me.
I think Jesus is anti-ANY religion.
He’s PRO-relationship.
Yes it's painfull.As soon as snark makes it's appearance the carnal mind starts yapping,the discussion heads south and much that could be gleaned is blown away.
However ,what I find equally or even more painfull is that a child of God,who has been freely given all that's needed,who is indwelt by the Holy Spirit,who has been set free from the law of sin and death,who is no longer ignorant of the devil and his deceits,who will inherit all things,who has simply been (on an epic scale!)'set free' forever,still thinks he has the luxury of being offended.
The RF has been drowning in victimhood lately.
LOLOL!!!
Been there, done that.
What an experience.
Just ironies I’ve noticed over the years....
“...told us many times they don’t believe the Bible...”
Anecdotal information, and false as well, even it was a priest who said it.
Every single Catholic doctrine is backed up by scriptural proof - every single one. Just read for example St. Thomas Aquinas who ALWAYS cites scripture to back up his (Catholic) positions. Not one statement in the Catechism is made without a scriptural back-up - not one. Procure an actual copy, read it, look up the biblical cross-references in the footnotes, and then let me know how unscriptural we are.
The idea that Catholics don’t read and understand Scripture is a myth used by Proetestants to vilify us.
It sure has.
Being a martyr is more than being offended cause someone said something you don’t like.
And to choose to apply the label to one’s own self, is even more of a fail.
It's a trap that a lot of people fall into. They will complain, "I don't want to associate with a homosexual!" But they hang out with liars and adulterers.
I am a sinner.
Saved by Grace.
I did nothing to earn my salvation. Jesus Christ paid the price because God loves me.
God doesn't look at one kind of sin (say lies, or tax cheats) and say, "I can accept that!" and with another (except for THE unforgivable sin) say, "Even though you murdered a man, the blood of Christ you claim is insufficient: Get outta here!"
It's a "trap" because people believe that THEIR OWN sense of justice is better than God's. They have carved their own image of God in the process.
The irony of you claiming that Catholics conquered the Word of God is painful.
Well said.
That’s remarkable.
But I won’t.
“I don’t see “hostility” on either side...disagreements are not Hostile.”
I appreciate you stating that in this thread (here and earlier).
As Ive said, not only the arguments but the style of pressing them taught me a very great deal about important differences in the basic Trinitarian and Christological dogmata. So I got a lot from the RF. But mostly this doesn't meet any needs of which I am aware.
Yes, we all might do well to grow thicker skins. On the other hand it's a shame that there's a need to do so.
The interesting questions then have to do with Xtian Epistemology. How can we know a thing? How do we know how to read the Bible? What different ways are there to read it, and what are the implications of those ways.
Can or should we read as the NT writers did? What would that mean? Could the conclusions we drew be discussed?
That's where my interest goes. And this is clearly not the forum for such questions.
“...speak the truth in love...”
The problem is posts such as #50 that appear very quickly and are not speaking the “Truth in Love”.
The problem is not disagreement in and of itself.
It is obvious when the bashing starts as it speaks for itself. Most people inherently “get” the difference in nuance between snark and honest doctrinal discussion.
Most understand and recognize the difference at once when they experience it or dish it out.
I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples. As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full. This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
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