Posted on 07/15/2015 5:31:40 AM PDT by Gamecock
Actually the oldest known NT is in a Greek monastery
Ignatius here was writing to the church at Smyrna, described in the book of Revelation as being the poor of the city, which in that time meant they were illiterate. When the controversies arose regarding the Tenach, the role of the Jews, etc., they did not have resources to deal with the conflict. So Ignatius steers them to the bishop,and the presbytery for the sake of their protection, since they lacked basic knowledge and access to such knowledge.
Not necessarily a pattern for all time and all cultures.
Baptist churches are often prone to falling under the spell of a charismatic leader and ceding all authority to him, while inaccurately claiming they are under the authority of the elected elders.
Hmmm, interesting quotes from a Catholic Bishop who was under the authority of the Bishop of Rome and believed that there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church. Food for thought, hey?
Oh, the Catholic Church had way more than 7 local parishes when John wrote Revelation.
What you didn’t find back then was a Baptist Church, Presbyterian, Methodist, Mormon, seventh day adventist, etc.
That confusion was over 1,400 years away.
No, actually the Church Fathers believed in the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. They were humble enough to first LEARN the Catholic Faith and submitted themselves to the Bishops. They only taught what the Scriptures and Apostolic Tradition taught and never tried to draw believers out of the Catholic Church.
Contrast them with the 16th century church fathers who rejected all that and set in motion 500 years of religious strife and confusion.
You may want to check your definition for presbyter.
You know what you won’t find the Church Fathers teaching?
That Jesus no longer has a human nature.
I am not sure what obscure “church” teaches that, even the so called reformers would reject that heresy.
The only reason they had the Scriptures back then and why you have them today, is that the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church ( both Greek and Latin believers ) received the books, copied the books and examined the books in light of the oral Apostolic Faith they received in order to determine which books were canonical and which were spurious.
Everyone who accepts the 27 book NT honors this Catholic Tradition in doing so, whether one realizes it or not. Thank the holy monks who labored millions of hours hand copying.
Thank you both for bringing this consideration to the fore. Brethren assemblies are still meeting across the globe. It is still the New Testament way for the local Body to yield itself to its Head, Jesus, Lord and Messiah. (Rom. 12:1, 1 Cor. 11:26)
Yes, thanks to ALL the folks, from the Holy Spirit inspired Jewish authors, to the translators, scribes, and printers from ALL backgrounds and ages who worked to get God’s Word into the hands of the people in their respective languages. This was accomplished IN SPITE of religious persecution and the unbelievable STUPIDITY of so-called “church” leadership, who often denied the laity the right to own, or even read God’s Word for themselves.
There was no Catholic Church, and no catholicity of churches. There were local churches planted all across the known world at Paul's time, each of which was independent, autonomous, baptizing by immersion, goverened by elders, and doing what Baptists and Brethren do today. Catholicity was a concept later introduced by marrying the Platonic concept of oversoul with extrabiblical church polity by Gentile philosophers who grasped the reins of power by unifying with the Roman government as its religion, and overcoming Scriptural Christianity.
“Actually the oldest known NT is in a Greek monastery”
Yes; I know a monk from there. Here’s an interesting fact. The Monastery of St. Catherine at Sinai is a completely autocephalous Church, like the Church of Constantinople, Moscow, Antioch etc. It has a fascinating and very long history.
In point of fact, the Hellenistic people of the Levant, and of course of Greece, were highly literate.
I love my Brethren brethren dearly, and owe much to them in my spiritual upbringing and training......BUT,
But they too have for the most part adopted a “pastor” mentality with ONE of the elders doing most preaching/teaching, etc. = dependence on one man.
And, many assemblies have become dead and legalistic, rigid, unbending, not open to the leading of the Holy Spirit, and very self-righteous, spiritually proud. They are too often an empty shell of what used to be........
Of course, I only know of a few assemblies personally - but understand that most are the same......
Every move of God in history has ended up thus - there is no reason for the Brethren to be different.....in time, spirituality declines, men take over, supplant Christ while loudly proclaiming His headship, apathy sets in, legalism, form becomes rigid and the most important thing rather than LIFE and personal relationship/walk with the Lord.
One missionary summed it up something like this: Every move of God is born in a cave - and dies in a cathedral.
Meaning, when people are helpless, destitute, they fall on their knees and cry out to God. He hears, He answers, He moves, they are blessed. In a generation or less, they take everything for granted - later, they “earned it” or “deserve it” because they are better, more spiritual than others. Spiritual pride comes in. Apathy. Spiritual deadness.
The form remains - a shell of what once was. The form becomes the emphasis. But there is no life in the form. They build a building. To be spiritual, it is called a “chapel” and not a church. But the thought is the same: a place where God is.
Sorry, God hasn’t dwelt in a place since Ezekiel when God withdrew His presence from the Temple, and that - interestingly - was the subject of Jesus conversation with the woman at the well - brought up by her, not by Him. God is spirit, and true worshipers worship Him in spirit and truth.
His dwelling place is His people - now through eternity - but only where they truly allow Him to be the Foundation, the Center, and the Head in a living, practical way.
While this IS true...
ALL churches are often prone to falling under the spell of a charismatic leader and ceding all authority to him...
Do YOU believe it?
Does Rome TEACH it still?
Drink to wash down the food for thought.
Good way to AVOID discussing the ERROR in those 7 CATHOLIC churches!
Doesn't this describe almost ALL churches today?
Pail had an example...
1 Corinthians 14:26
What then shall we say, brothers and sisters? When you come together, each of you has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. Everything must be done so that the church may be built up.
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