Posted on 06/27/2015 6:34:38 PM PDT by Morgana
He's the first one mentioned in the book - that you Catholics put together.
Does your chosen church teach something different we should know about?
End of Elsiethon!
Everybody makes typos. I make my fair share.
Alex, one of the former Protestant ministers I know (who became a Catholic after deep scripture study) used to tell me that the Lutherans he worked with as a minister had many of the same problems as many Catholics - including the fact that some didn’t study scripture much.
Many Protestants are no different than many Catholics and since Protestants have legitimized outright heresy whatever scripture study Protestants do doesn’t seem to matter much.
Seriously, are you saying that you REALLY SERIOUSLY believe that John the Baptist was the first Baptist?
Alex, here’s an example: RnMomof7 apparently can’t tell the difference between the redemption and salvation. How can a person study scripture and not know the difference?
From the pope who presided over Vatican I: https://www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/outside_the_church.htm
So, once again, we see you’re misrepresenting what is taught. Same old, same old.
Anti-Catholicism: Lead paint chips for the Protestant mind.
False
The Church Saul thought he could stamp out was a spiritual ekklesia, not a man-made —and at times harlot appointed— institution.
The one holy catholic apostolic church was real, visible, historical, and identifiable, which is how Saul was able to persecute it. He was zealous, like you.
“...What a twisted way to say something! ...it is a hard saying for a catholic to comprehend...”
It is not twisted to state that God would not have kept people completely ignorant of the way to salvation until Luther came along and got rid of the sacraments and found justification by faith alone in his personal version of the bible that he translated into German with errors.
This a clear declaration of fact due to God’s nature as all good: God is merciful and just and it would be against His nature to withhold the Truth of salvation for all of those years. The early Christians writings clearly refer to the sacraments.
Luther added the words “alone” to his personal bible translation in Romans 3:28.
He freely admits that he did so: “If your papist annoys you with that word (alone) tell him Martin Luther will have it so”
Clearly Martin Luther felt himself to be infallible.
This pertains to this discussion and Luther must be brought into it because the error rapidly multiplied and ended up in the Tyndale bible. The Tyndale bible used Martin Luther’s bible as a template which in turn was the precursor to the KJV (mis) translation and the root cause of the widespread heretical doctrine of once saved always saved.
This was the seed of the false traditional protestant doctrine of faith alone that is being handed on to this day.
These are historical facts that have not been twisted. It is on the internet if one searches for Church history and avoids the hate and error filled anti catholic websites that perpetuate propaganda.
“God has kept no man from the Truth the Catholic Church not so much.”
The Catholic Church does not withhold Truth. One only has to obtain a Catechism of the Catholic Church and read it to see that the Truth is not withheld. Buy one and read it and see if any Truth is withheld, including all the scripture references that uphold the doctrines.
“hard for a catholic to comprehend...”
The Church teaches assurance of salvation as well, if one is a state of grace, so the concept is actually not difficult at all for a Catholic to comprehend.
“Born from above” is baptism. It is the actual water that regenerates from the power of the Holy Spirit (John 3:5) when the baptism is done in the name of the Trinity. The water referred to is NOT amniotic fluid. Nowhere in the entire Greek lexicon of the New Testament is water (hudor) ever referred to as amniotic fluid. Water is water. Also see Acts 2:38 and 22:16
Baptism is the assurance for Catholics that they will be saved and placed in a state of grace.
This grace can be lost by the commission of a heinous act of sin. A murderer, rapist or worse is able to sin and state that he has Faith and still goes straight to heaven?
The ten commandments and the instructions found in the beatitudes are the laws of the New Covenant that must be obeyed. Matthew 25:41 clearly states what happens to those who ignore the instructions in Matthew 5:31-46
This is absurd and contradicts the scripture that only the perfect are in heaven, and be perfect as your father in heaven is perfect. Matthew 5:48
This concept of once saved always saved is actually dangerous because it gives a man license to sin:
Martin Luther: “Sin and sin boldly ... Sin cannot destroy in us the kingdom of the Lamb, even if we should fornicate or murder a million times a day.”
This is not twisting or “hard for Catholics to comprehend”. This is the actual correct Catholic position without the distorted thinking that accompanies the “explained” (wrongly) version of Catholicism that non Catholics are taught.
That's not a valid example, that's an baseless accusation. Your earlier post to metmom was that Protestant ministers with "degrees in scripture" will become Catholic if they become "deep in scripture". You made an empirical claim that a direct, causal relationship exists between ministers reading scripture and converting to Catholicism. IMO you need a substantial number of specific examples that show the causality before your claim is believable.
Ah yes, the goddess of the mystery religion of Rome. They lift her to equality with Jesus Christ. Yet poor catholic adherents are unable to see this great blasphemy because they do not read the Word of God and see His condemnation of this blasphemy.
Why of course it is because the Magicsteeringthem proclaims it. In a mystery religion the leaders mat declare any mystery as dogma and the adherents are commanded to believe it and follow dutifully to the ends thereof ...
You proclaimed, “Baptism is the assurance for Catholics that they will be saved and placed in a state of grace.” Will be saved? You don’t even know the simplest declaration of the The Gospel of Grace, yet you presume to teach us of Christianity? Your Magicsteeringthem has you firmly in their grasp, and on your way to their destination
Since you do not capitalize ‘catholic’ may we presume you are not referring specifically to the Vatican’s creation?
We ? Are you speaking on behalf of the Southern Baptist Convention, or just one of its assemblies among many, or you and a spouse, or yourself alone ?
The one holy catholic apostolic church was not created by the Vatican.
Then had the churches rest throughout all Judaea and Galilee and Samaria, and were edified; and walking in the fear of the Lord, and in the comfort of the Holy Ghost, were multiplied.
Acts, Catholic chapter nine, Protestant verse thirty one,
RP Byzantine Majority Text 2005 with bold emphasis mine, English as authorized, but not authored, by King James
You have several assumptions conflated to do your bidding. Let's unpack them.
You apparently can see God's nature in the command to the Apostles to go into all the world and preach the Gospel. But do you know what that Gospel is?
When you learn what is The Ture Gospel of Jesus Christ, you will discern, hopefully, that even a confused non-believer can begin to believe in Jesus as the Christ via catholic dispalys. THAT is what is needed for God to justify them as Born from Above.
Since you cannot even begin to know what is going through the mind of any person following along in Catholicism, you should not presume that your mystery religion heresies are what is 'leading them toward salvation'. They may not agree in their heart with the veneration of Mary, and prayers to her as mediatrix for Jesus and salvation, since there is a chance they have read what God says in His Word about praying to or trying to communicate with dead people, and since the Word of God clearly states that we are a new creation when we are justified by His blood and have every right to go directly to Him with our prayers and supplications.
It appears you are wanting to claim all the sacraments of the catholic church are needed to obtain salvation. That is flat out bullpucky! And your appeal to 'The early Christians writings clearly refer to the sacraments' is but a sophistry making an appeal outside of what the scriptures plainly reveal to us through the writings of Paul, Peter, John, Jude, and James. If you cannot find a clear scene of a sacrament your mystery religion has devised it.
While am no fan of old Luther the wayward catholic priest, I will take issue with the following foolishness from your post:
"This was the seed of the false traditional protestant doctrine of faith alone that is being handed on to this day."
I can show you via The Bible, God's Word, that faith alone is what God bases His declaration of Justification. Now if you want to conflate Justification with sanctification, the Christian Life, well that is yet another catholic heresy to be unpacked for the willful contradiction to God's Word as taught even by Jesus:
Therefore they said to Him, “What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?”Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”
Would you argue with Jesus, telling Him He left out something vital for salvation because your magic mystery religion has devised sacraments they proclaim are required for Salvation? It appears you would do just that!
I'll close with the following little Magicsteeringthem assertion through you:
"The Tyndale bible used Martin Luther’s bible as a template which in turn was the precursor to the KJV (mis) translation and the root cause of the widespread heretical doctrine of once saved always saved."Again, let's let Jesus settle this man-devised false proclamation you've made against salvation by faith alone:
John 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.John 10:28-30 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. “My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. “I and the Father are one.”
Notice that No Man comes to the Father except The Father draws them to Himself. Notice also that No Man can pluck those who faithe (yes, the verb form, for we are discussing those IN CHRIST not just looking at Him) in Jesus as The Christ. That is a proclamation for the living, and Jesus gives them life everlasting, starting when they faithe in Him.
The Promises of God are unbreakable. The Magicsteeringthem may assert they have sacraments which must be observed through THEM in order to 'obtain, or eventually arrive at' salvation, eventually, but God has Proclaimed otherwise. And therein is the Way we may know catholcisim is a false religion meant to ride the coattails of Christianity.
Some have awakened to the faithing in Christ and been thereby born from above. Only to be led into confusion and mystery foolery by catholicisim. Thankfully, as you noted, 'God is merciful and just'. But do not make the haughty assumption that God has been restrained by the mystery sludge draped all over you mystery religion headed by a Magicsteeringthem who are as Nicolaitan as it gets!
It may well be that for centuries the confusion which the heresies in Catholicism generate have been instrumental in causing sincere searchers for God to give up trying and just trust that God being God, and since they believe He has come in the flesh to be the Redeemer, have gotten justified immediately despite the catholic efforts to hold them captive to the institution.
And now I have a rhetorical question for you: what makes a harlot differ from a wife and mother?
Your effort to conflate the devised institution of catholicism with the spiritual body of Christ is rejected, by many of US on these threads. And that is the WE to which I refer. Some catholics are members of the Body of Christ, but the catholic institution is not that body.
BTW, I do not capitalize 'catholic' because capitalizing is a form of respect and I have none for your religion of popery foolery.
And I predict that most Catholics will stay faithful to that "Church".
That the denomination or "church" one supposedly belongs to makes no difference regarding salvation. Any so called "church" that declares it is the "one true church" is to be avoided like the plague. The one true ekklesia Christ began consists of all those who have truly accepted Christ as their savior through faith alone. Any organization that proclaims it alone is the organization by which salvation is attained is by definition a cult in the worst possible way.
I think he made his point rather well and it seems you have no defence.
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