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To: MHGinTN
Do you not yet see the contradiction in your reasoning? If the saved have no choice, being forced to love God and thus no choice in open the door to The Lord, again “Why does Jesus stand at the door and knock?”

Because God doesn't interfer with our will. We have to acknowledge Christ, repent of our sins, and ask Christ to come into our lives. That isn't an issue. The real issue is whether God opens up the eyes and ears of everyone to know enough to open that door. As pointed out in the verses in my last point to you, He does not.

Please think about this for a moment. Do you think you were more clever than someone else in asking Christ into your life? You don't have to answer that question because I already know you don't. There is not a believer here on this site or elsewhere that wouldn't give God the credit for their salvation.

And, let me ask you this; if God COULD force you to love Him, would you want Him to do so?

We do agree that we're in the end times. I believe the evidence is all around. Beyond that I'm not sure how it will all happen. Eschatology is not my thing.

925 posted on 06/06/2015 6:33:37 PM PDT by HarleyD ("... letters are weighty, but his .. presence is weak, and his speech of no account.")
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To: HarleyD
Gd chose Israel to be a witness to all the nations. He gave them the choice to do the job or it would be given to another. We Gentiles are now doing it. Did the Israelites choose to feel smug and chosen toward the nations around them? Yes. Was that what God expected of them? No. Were they choosing to do or not to do or was God pretending that they had a choice when he didn't expect them to do what he told them to do as His elect?

The entire of our disagreement hangs upon the reality of Love, can it be forced or not. I am convinced that God so Loved that He gave His only begotten Son, that WHOMSOEVER may choose the salvation by substitution that The Grace of God in Christ offers. If there is no choice then the Grace is not Grace and the Gift of eternal Life is not a gift it is the game played as the inventor of the game arranged it ONLY. Perhaps we shall have an opportunity to discuss this further after we meet int he clouds. Pax vobiscum

926 posted on 06/06/2015 6:47:33 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Is it really all relative, Mister Einstein?)
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To: HarleyD
When Paul wrote 'faithful is He that calleth you, he answered this question to my understanding ... God seeks us out but we have the sovereign right to reject and it is that which sends men to Hell, not their sins. That they choose to reject God's Grace is what sends them to Hell. The result of their rejection is what is predestined, not their sins but the result of not believing God and God's Promises in Christ Jesus. BUT if they have no choice to make it is neither their sins nor their rejection of the Promises but the game being run according to prearranged outcome. As Xzins has so skillfully illustrated, God cares, not because He likes His game but because we actually have the sovereign ability to suffer for not believing God's Promises, not accepting His love as offered on the Cross.

We have much to agree on, but the perspective is not aligned between us. Genuine love is very different from feigned affection. God's forfeits none of His Sovereignty over His creation when He makes the gift of sovereignty for each individual. Loving adds to the lover as it can add to the loved. But love not accepted or returned adds nothing to the loved nor does it diminish the lover. Love is that mysterious thing which adds to the one loving even if the love is no accepted. But if accepted and returned, it builds up both without subtracting from something else.

928 posted on 06/06/2015 6:58:29 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Is it really all relative, Mister Einstein?)
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To: HarleyD
Because God doesn't interfer with our will.

God interfers with our will all the time. He certainly did with Paul on the Damascus Road. He did when He flooded the world during the time of Noah. He did in Egypt. There is a whole Bible full of examples of God "interferring" in our lives. God isn't a "hands-off" God. He is very involved in our lives.

932 posted on 06/07/2015 3:38:15 AM PDT by HarleyD ("... letters are weighty, but his .. presence is weak, and his speech of no account.")
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