Insofar as Mary did carry Christ, our New Covenant, then she is in a unique and exalted status, as was the ARK of the Old Covenant untouchable (except to the Levites of Koriah). Mary carried the Divine Savior in her womb, she who did not know man.
Recall the story of Uzziah, who, when he saw the Ark tipping to one side, sought to touch the Ark and was killed for his trouble. (2 Samuel 6:1-7)
Now remember, he touched the ARK, not the covenant contained therein.
Of Mary, she herself prophesied in Luke 1:48, “All generations shall call me Blessed.”
I would venture to hazard a guess here, that no one has ever called Mary blessed in your church. Your bible-believing church.
Also, when speaking to the APOSTLES, mere men, in Matthew 16:19, he tells them, “I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.”
Let me make it plain here, that by apostolic succession, anointed men, “uncrowned” as they were, to use your term,
HAVE POWER OVER HEAVEN AND EARTH!!
Got that?
Now in your church, no one claims such power; and yes, even if they tried to do so, THAT would be blasphemous. I repeat ... you and your church do not have that power, nor can you claim it as ‘bible-believing Christians’. You have no such power and never will.
So the priests of the Catholic Church do have this power. . We have the authority. Not you. Not your ‘church’. Not ever.
Well, if you became a Catholic and then became a priest;
but that’s another story ... a Saul from Tarsus kind of story.
Furthermore, you may come up with the dodge too often used by Protestants, “show me where that is in the Bible”.
We, as Catholics, DO rely on verbal tradition. We have both the Christ-given authority to do so, AND the scripture to back it up.
2 Thessolonians 2:15
Therefore, brothers, stand fast, and hold the traditions which you have been taught, whether by WORD, or our letter.
Here, once again, dear ‘Bible-believing Christian’, just off the top of my head, I’m guessing you have ZERO, NOTHING, NADA in the spoken tradition department. And again, you have no power or authorization to say if something is or isn’t true as spoken OR written, no power to bind in heaven or unbind, and the only “letter” you have is the Bible, which was compiled by the, ahem,
CATHOLIC CHURCH.
This compilation of the Bible was completed in the 4th Century AD, as the Church, (the Catholic Church; yours did not even exist) was freed from constant persecution by the Edict of Milan in 313 AD.
So I have given a few quick reasons, but perhaps we can touch on a few more as to why THE Church, The Catholic Church, can claim to be the PILLAR, the FOUNDATION — of TRUTH.
OK, so let me ask you a question, do you consider your church to be THE foundation of truth? Would it not be more accurate for me to guess that you would answer that the BIBLE is the pillar and foundation of truth for you and the members of your church? Yes?
1 Timothy 3:15
“If I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.”
Soooo, if it ISN’T the BIBLE, and it certainly isn’t your church, then, hmmm, what church could it possibly be?
Enough of that for now. I hope that you can grasp the plain-meaning of these verses, and not do a lot of theological tap-dancing to try to prove an impossible position.
Now about this Mary, this Blessed Mary, this Blessed Virgin Mary.
How could and why would Almighty God give her any power? By now, hopefully you realize that men have been given power from on high to bind and loose sins, indeed “uncrowned men” (What a phrase??? Where on earth ... oh, never mind) can do GREATER WORKS THAN ALMIGHTY GOD HIMSELF.
“Blasphemy!”, you say. And more, “The elect are not even crowned until the Lord returns, and nowhere is Mary said to be given such power in the wholly inspired word of God ...”
A quick aside here ... if you are going to call yourself a Bible-believing Christian, it’s about high time for you to get off the stick and really start reading the Bible. Sheesh.
Power has been given to those that Christ, Almighty God, has designated.
Now scripturally speaking, can Mary say she is holding back the hand of God? Yes. Could I do it too? Yes, again. You? Ummm, maybe, with a FEW, GIGANTIC re-triangulations in you theology! Ha!
Here is the sovereign word of Jesus Christ, King of the Universe, Almighty God:
John 14:12
“Amen, amen I say to you, he that believeth in me, the works that I do, he also shall do; and GREATER THAN THESE SHALL HE DO, because I go to the Father.”
So yes, Mary, the “lowly handmaid of the Lord”, the Mother of Jesus, who is God; the Mother of God then, does have this power. Some men have more heavenly power by the grace of God than others, and so by her position as Mother of God, she has been given more power by the Trinity than any person on earth.
Uh, backtracking a bit, another of those un-crowned guys, Elijah the Prophet, brought a drought upon the land.
1 Kings 17
“And Elijah the Tishbite, of the inhabitants of Gilead, said to Ahab, “As the Lord God of Israel lives, before whom I stand, there shall not be dew nor rain these years, except at my word.”
And don’t you EVEN get me started on Moses; uncrowned Moses.
(If nothing else, I hope to rid you of the ‘uncrowned men’ crapola.)
Another thing about Elisha, Elijah’s successor. Now I’m going to let you look this one up for yourself. Blow the dust off your Bible and see if you can find where the mere bones of Elisha brought a man back to life. I know, I know, you’re thinking this is one of those crazy Catholic stories they made up just to justify praying to saints, but guhead, giveera try. Chapter and verse please.
Now we come to the crux of your missive. You claim I have blasphemed. Your claim DOES have a precedent in scripture:
John 10:36
“Do you say of him whom the Father hath sanctified and sent into the world: Thou blasphemest, because I said, I am the Son of God?
37”If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me; 38but if I do them, though you do not believe Me, BELIEVE THE WORKS, so that you may know and understand that the Father is in Me, and I in the Father.”
In my letter in the Forum, I wrote about a public miracle in the 20th Century, witnessed by Catholics, Protestants, atheists and skeptics of all stripes. Photographs were taken during the event. Newspaper articles were written along with other testimonies of those present.
A word to the wise Dan’l. Be extremely careful about what you call blasphemous, especially insofar as if you’re wrong, you are violating the 8th commandment. I do not believe you looked at the movie I discussed, nor did you research the Miracle itself. There is hard evidence about it. It is recorded, photographed history.
Again, as Christ said, paraphrasing, ‘If you cannot believe in Me, at least believe in the works I do.’ Look, see, believe, and stop thine unbelief.
This public miracle was and is a warning from the Mother of Christ to mankind to stop sinning. If we do not do so, terrible consequences will follow. They already have in the form of the rise of communism and WW II.
The roles of Mary are varied, but among them is a position similar to Moses in that she pleads for God’s mercy on His creation. The is what Fatima is about. Whether you or anyone else believes is governed by free will and the grace of the Holy Spirit. Also, in my Free Republic note, I listed other prophetesses, including one who died in the 60’s, warning mankind of an imminent chastisement.
We have been warned to pray, fast and do penance.
Recall the story of Uzziah, who, when he saw the Ark tipping to one side, sought to touch the Ark and was killed for his trouble. (2 Samuel 6:1-7)
Now remember, he touched the ARK, not the covenant contained therein.
What? So anyone who touched Mary was killed instantly?
Or is it anyone who touched Jesus was killed instantly?
Then how did the crowds press around Him and not die? And how did He touch people to heal them and they not die?
Mary only said that at the time of the annunciation that she had not yet known a man, so she was puzzled over how she could be pregnant. That doesn't mean she never would know a man, and obviously, being engaged, she fully intended *knowing* a man, her husband. It's an expectation of marriage.
Here, once again, dear ‘Bible-believing Christian’, just off the top of my head, I’m guessing you have ZERO, NOTHING, NADA in the spoken tradition department.
So what? We have the inerrant, unchangeable word of the Living God. We don't need men's opinions added to it. It is sufficient for everything we need to come to know Jesus and grow and mature in Him. It is spiritual food for our spirit.
We have been warned to pray, fast and do penance.
No thanks. Not interested in going back into the bondage of a works based salvation religious system.
BTW, for what it's worth, your arguments for the validity of your church are not worth the electrons you used.
Please prove that what the Catholic Church teaches as "tradition" is exactly what the apostles taught that they called "tradition".
Nope.
The book the Catholic Church put together calls her BLESSED.
Why does it feel necessary to add to this???
You are reading into Scripture that which it nowhere states, while going way beyond what the Holy Spirit states about Mary as the God-bearer in His incarnation. Why do you add to the assured word of God? Only Christ, the Word make flesh, and who alone was sinless, and alone is crowned, was alone was spiritually full of grace and Truth, and fulfills the typology of the the Ark.
Recall the story of Uzziah, who, when he saw the Ark tipping to one side, sought to touch the Ark and was killed for his trouble. (2 Samuel 6:1-7)
• The Ark, once made, was moved via poles, so as not to be directly touched by sinful man (Ex. 25:12-16; II Sam. 6:1-9), yet which men Mary was surely touched by. And the former was ritually defiled by giving birth, and thus observed the required days of purification, (Lk. 2:22-24; cf. Lv. 12:2,6-8) and then brought the required living creatures to the priest “for a sin offering, unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, unto the priest: Who shall offer it before the Lord, and make an atonement for her; and she shall be cleansed from the issue of her blood.” (Leviticus 12:6,7)
But the sanctity of the Ark corresponds to the spiritual purity of Christ, who being the Lamb of God is alone said to be “holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens,” (Hebrews 7:26) “Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth,” (1 Peter 2:22) “For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.” (2 Corinthians 5:21)
Which is never said of Mary. Yet Catholics have the audacity to make Mary was sinless, even as binding doctrine, when Scripture nowhere teaches it, and we can be confident that it would say so if that was true, and especially if was a binding doctrine, just as it clearly records the sinlessness of Christ and other extraordinary or otherwise notable aspects of its subjects, even far lesser ones.
• And thou shalt make a mercy seat of pure gold....And make one cherub on the one end, and the other cherub on the other end:...And there I will meet with thee, and I will commune with thee from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubims (Exodus 25:17,19,22) On top of the ark was the mercy seat on which rested the cloud signifying the presence of God, between two cherubs of gold. The Greek word (Hebrews 9:5) for “mercy seat” is hilasterion, meaning “that which makes atonement.”
This easily corresponds to Matthew 17:4,5, in which Moses and Elijah, representing the law and the prophets, can be seen to answer to the two cherubims, and who talk with Christ under a bright cloud, and in which context all are called to commune with Christ, the atonement: “While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him,” thus directly communing with God. (cf. Heb. 10:19) And which is said to Peter, James and John, whom Paul later states (Gal. 2:9) appeared to be pillars of the church (if not in that order), thus this call to directly commune with God via the mercy seat under the cloud is to the church.
• “And in the ark thou shalt put the testimony that I shall give thee.” (Exodus 25:21)The Ark contained the 2 tables of the Law, which testimony in the NT becomes grace and Truth, and the Scriptures uniquely state Christ was “full of grace and Truth.” (Jn. 1:14) For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. (Jn 1:17)
• And they commanded the people, saying, When ye see the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, and the priests the Levites bearing it, then ye shall remove from your place, and go after it. (Joshua 3:3) And it was Christ, not Mary, who said “Follow me,” (Mt. 4:19) and “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me,” (John 10:27) as Christ alone was God manifest in the flesh. (Jn. 1:1-3,14; 20:28; 1Tim. 3:16)
• “And the ark of the covenant of the Lord went before them in the three days' journey, to search out a resting place for them.” (Numbers 10:33) And Christ, not Mary said,”I go to prepare a place for you.” (John 14:2)
Therefore it is Christ, not Mary who is clothed with gold, and declared to be undefiled, sinless, and the atonement/mercy seat, with two cherubs of glory on each side, by whom believers commune with God under the cloud of glory, and whom constrains the testimony of grace and Truth, and goes before believers.
Of Mary, she herself prophesied in Luke 1:48, “All generations shall call me Blessed.” I would venture to hazard a guess here, that no one has ever called Mary blessed in your church. Your bible-believing church.
WRONG: For this is both known and fulfilled by the Spirit recording it in Scripture, and as evangelicals read the Bible much more than RCs, then they often call Mary blessed, which she was because God choose to be the vessel for Christ.
And which type of affirmation was not unique, for as said of Jael as a mother,
Blessed above women shall Jael the wife of Heber the Kenite be, blessed shall she be above women in the tent. (Judges 5:24)
Also, when speaking to the APOSTLES, mere men, in Matthew 16:19, he tells them, “I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.” Let me make it plain here, that by apostolic succession, anointed men, “uncrowned” as they were, to use your term, HAVE POWER OVER HEAVEN AND EARTH!! Got that?
WRONG: Christ was given all power, not the disciples, but who in submission to Him, and only as He wills, and exercise binding and loosing power as seen in Scripture in their earthly ministry, but which did not make them rulers in Heaven or having any such ministry. Until the Lord returns and rewards and crowns His saints - which all believers are called - then unlike in Acts, the only postmortem activity the departed are shown to have is offering prayers as a memorial in the day of the Lord, (Rv. 5:8) and asking God when judgment will come, rather than holding it back (Rv. 6:9,10) In addition, the binding and loosing of Matthew 16:19 is nothing new but has its judicial correspondence with the OT magisterium, which could judicially bind or loose souls, dissent from which was a capital crime, (Dt. 17:8-13) but which did not exclude any dissent from being valid. Souls are even bound to generally obey the civil authorities, who can also judicially bind or loose souls.
And while the judicial (Mt. 18:15-18 - which had to do with personal issues) and intercessory aspect (Ja, 5:14,15) pertains primarily to the elders of the NT church - which knew nothing of a separate class of believers distinctively titled "priests" - yet the spiritual power of binding and loosing is provided for all righteous believers, as Christ is in the midst of them. (Mt. 18:18-19;
Thus the general admonition, "Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.' (Matthew 18:19-20))
And"Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much." (James 5:16)
For which Elijah is set forth as an example, and who was not part of the ordained magisterial authority - which prophets often reproved, as John the Baptist did - but who bound up the heavens for 3.5 years and loosed them again to rain.
And which is one aspect of binding and loosing, with loosing those who are afflicted or delivering them to bondage being another, (Lk. 4:18; 13:16; 1Cor. 5:1-5) and which extends to decisions in doctrinal disputes as well. (Acts 15)
In addition, contrary to what RCs have said, God does not bow His head in humble obedience to any man or priest, but instead all such is subject to the will of God,, and must be led by His Spirit.
Got that?
Now in your church, no one claims such power; and yes, even if they tried to do so, THAT would be blasphemous. I repeat ... you and your church do not have that power, nor can you claim it as ‘bible-believing Christians’. You have no such power and never will. We have the authority. So the priests of the Catholic Church do have this power. . Not you. Not your ‘church’. Not ever.
What bombast, what desperate elitism and what deluded profanity, misusing the name of Christ to give authority to Rome's unScriptural priesthood and actions! It is Rome which most manifestly lacks power and authority, with her pseudo-apostles, who fail of both the qualifications and credentials of the foundational apostles. (Acts 1:21,22; 1Cor. 9:1; Gal. 1:11,17; 2Cor. 6:4-10; 12:12), and her unScriptural sacerdotal "priests," and novel and unScriptural premise of ensured perpetual magisterial infallibility, and litany of other false teachings.
Even Rome's anointing of the sick normally denotes death is coming, not healing as in James 5:14,15. Moreover, Rome historically largely bound Scripture from being examined by the laity, and lacking spiritual power in the past, she has unScripturally relied upon the unholy power of the sword of men for discipline and to deal with her challengers, and having lost that, and does not bind the multitudes conservative which RCs say are disobedient, but counts and treats even proabortion/sodomite pols as members in life and in death, as well as their supporters.
You are talking to a former RC who raised devout, but who was manifestly born again, with its profound changes in heart and life (though in need of more growth, still), while a weekly practicing RC in 1977 (evangelical radio helped). And who sought to serve God after that as a CCD teacher and lector, and never missed mass for about 6 years, until the Lord manifestly led me to an evangelical church in response to sincere prayer, due to the deadness of Rome and her unScriptural teachings.
And as such i well know the vast differences btwn regeneration and institutionalized religion, which is more form than reality, and in which i rarely found someone else who realized what i did as a result of regeneration, which included an insaitiable hunger to know how to please God according to Scripture (evangelical radio and being a truck driver helping, praise God). And i can honestly say that it is Rome which is mostly dead, with a dead gospel, dead prelates and dead pews, which lust to get some evangelical converts as they bring some life to them.
And rather than denying Mt. 16:17, It is evangelical faith that is seeing God manifestly loose souls and heal, though i pray for much more, as we certainly do believe that this power of binding and loosing is for all holy believers, and have seen God do so in response to our intercession. And which includes the authority to deal with sin and disobedience, as Westminster affirmed.
Furthermore, you may come up with the dodge too often used by Protestants, “show me where that is in the Bible”
The dodge is on your part, as the oral preaching and Truth claims of the Lord was established upon scriptural substantiation in word and in power, beginning with defeating the devil by what it is written, to substantiating His call and mission to the disciples, as did the early church as it began upon this basis, with miracles also secondarily attesting to Truth, as per Scripture . (Mt. 4:4; 22:23-45; Lk. 24:27,44; Jn. 5:36,39; Acts 2:14-35; 4:33; 5:12; 15:6-21;17:2,11; 18:28; 28:23; Rm. 15:19; 2Cor. 12:12, etc.) And thus they would not and did not invoke "oral tradition" as a substitute for lack of Scriptural proof. It was not tradition that the Lord opened the minds of the disciples to (and which included more than the 11), but Scripture. (LK. 24:44,45)
Thus the Bereans were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. (Acts 17:11) And it is abundantly evidenced that the word of God/the Lord was normally written, even if sometimes first being spoken, and that as written, Scripture became the transcendent supreme standard for obedience and testing and establishing truth claims as the wholly Divinely inspired and assured, Word of God.
The Lord and His apostles did provide new public revelation,and wholly inspired words of God, neither of which Rome claims to do, while channeling doctrines out of her amorphous mysterious oral tradition.
. We, as Catholics, DO rely on verbal tradition. We have both the Christ-given authority to do so, AND the scripture to back it up. 2 Thessolonians 2:15 Therefore, brothers, stand fast, and hold the traditions which you have been taught, whether by WORD, or our letter.
Wrong, as while we have many traditions, from wedding ceremonies to manner of services, but unlike Rome, these traditions conflate with Scripture and are subject to it, while Paul is not referring to ancient stories, but oral preaching of known Scriptural Truths which they had heard, obedience to which which a SS preacher can also enjoin, as Paul claimed the gospel was of Scripture. (Rm. 1:1,2) Paul also was given had special public revelation, and was a wholly inspired writer of Scripture, which Rome cannot claim for her statements.
. Nor is there any evidence that what Rome teaches were things Paul referred to, and that these were not subsequently penned.
Moreover, in contrast to the known contemporary Scriptural Truths Paul enjoined obedience to, Rome presumes she can even decree as binding the belief in a event for a specific person not recorded in Scripture, and contrary to its order, 1800 years after it allegedly occurred, and even though it was (and is) lacking early testimony of tradition, and the sanction of her church historians and theologians, but which made into binding doctrine anyway under her Caesariopapacy, claming to "remember" what was missing in warrant, and is guaranted to be true under the self-proclaimed premise that she cannot err. Which is cultic, not Christian.
And again, you have no power or authorization to say if something is or isn’t true as spoken OR written, no power to bind in heaven or unbind, and the only “letter” you have is the Bible, which was compiled by the, ahem,
Wrong again, as presuming no one has any power or authorization to say if something is or isn’t true if they were not of Rome, based upon her being the historical steward of revelation, effectively invalidates the NT church, as the fact is that the church actually began in dissent from those who sat in the seat of Moses over Israel, (Mt. 23:2) who were the historical instruments and stewards of Scripture, "because that unto them were committed the oracles of God," (Rm. 3:2) to whom pertaineth" the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises" (Rm. 9:4) of Divine guidance, presence and perpetuation as they believed, (Gn. 12:2,3; 17:4,7,8; Ex. 19:5; Lv. 10:11; Dt. 4:31; 17:8-13; Ps, 11:4,9; Is. 41:10, Ps. 89:33,34; Jer. 7:23)
And instead they followed an itinerant Preacher whom the magisterium rejected, and whom the Messiah reproved them Scripture as being supreme, (Mk. 7:2-16) and established His Truth claims upon scriptural substantiation in word and in power, as did the early church as it began upon this basis. (Mt. 22:23-45; Lk. 24:27,44; Jn. 5:36,39; Acts 2:14-35; 4:33; 5:12; 15:6-21;17:2,11; 18:28; 28:23; Rm. 15:19; 2Cor. 12:12, etc.)
Thus as the church began contrary to the Roman model, with souls discerning what something is or isn’t true without an infallible magisterium, which is the basis of the veracity of RC Truth claims, then it is Rome that has no unique power or authorization to say if something is or isn’t true as spoken OR written, no power to bind in heaven or unbind, and the only “letter” you have is the self-proclamation of Rome.
For according to Catholic teaching, people cannot even discover what the contents of revelation are without Rome, but "have to be told by people who have received in from on high," (Cardinal Avery Dulles, SJ, “Magisterium: Teacher and Guardian of the Faith,” p. 72), as "no matter what be done the believer cannot believe in the Bible nor find in it the object of his faith until he has previously made an act of faith in the intermediary authorities." (Catholic Encyclopedia>Tradition)
And thus as Keating asserts, The mere fact that the Church teaches the doctrine of the Assumption as definitely true is a guarantee that it is true. ” — Karl Keating, Catholicism and Fundamentalism (San Francisco: Ignatius, 1988), p. 275
As Scripture upholds the authority of the magisterial office, thus Westminster affirms it, but Scripture nowhere examples or promises or shows as essential ensured perpetual magisterial infallibility as per Rome (and basically in primary cults), and which is the basis for your assurance of Truth. And thus a faithful RC is not to ascertain the veracity of RC teaching by examination of evidences (for that reason). For to do so would be to doubt the claims of Rome to be the assuredly infallible magisterium by which a RC obtains assurance of Truth.
Therefore as said, and in addition to her numerous other unScriptural teachings, since this Roman basis for veracity is contrary to how the NT church began, then it is Rome which has no unique power or authorization to say if something is or isn’t true as spoken OR written, no power to bind in heaven or unbind, and the only “letter” you have is the self-proclamation of Rome. For Rome has presumed to infallibly declare she is and will be perpetually infallible whenever she speaks in accordance with her infallibly defined (scope and subject-based) formula, which renders her declaration that she is infallible, to be infallible, as well as all else she accordingly declares. In addition, presuming no one has any power or authorization to say if something is or isn’t true if they were not of a select group is contrary to what Scripture states, since the Lord affirmed the work of those effectually operating in His name (which Rome does in form) even though they were not of the company of the apostles. (Mk. 9:38-40)
But many RCs seem not to read much of Scripture except what can be contorted to support Rome.
This compilation of the Bible was completed in the 4th Century AD,
But scholarly disagreement continued down thru the centuries and right into Trent , which provided the first infallible, indisputable canon, after the death of Luther.
as the Church, (the Catholic Church; yours did not even exist) was freed from constant persecution by the Edict of Milan in 313 AD.
Actually, the only one true church is that which only consist 100% of believers, that being the body of Christ, while visible churches are an admixture of wheat and tares, mostly the latter in Rome's case. While true believers always existed within the church of Rome, which did not deceive or kill them all, it progressively became deformed as it is now. As can be seen in the light of Scripture, which Rome exalts herself over.
So I have given a few quick reasons, but perhaps we can touch on a few more as to why THE Church, The Catholic Church, can claim to be the PILLAR, the FOUNDATION — of TRUTH. OK, so let me ask you a question, do you consider your church to be THE foundation of truth? Would it not be more accurate for me to guess that you would answer that the BIBLE is the pillar and foundation of truth for you and the members of your church? Yes? 1 Timothy 3:15 “If I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.”
And just how does 1 Timothy 3:15, which simply states the church of the living God (not dead, as Rome largely is) supports the Truth, uniquely support Rome as being the supreme infallible authority over Scripture? Is this text even infallibly defined as teaching that?
Meanwhile, the church of the living God spoken of, as most often in such statements, is the body of Christ, which Rome admits consists also of those outside fellowship with Rome.
Soooo, if it ISN’T the BIBLE, and it certainly isn’t your church, then, hmmm, what church could it possibly be?
As your premise is fallacious, so it your conclusion. Again.
Enough of that for now. I hope that you can grasp the plain-meaning of these verses, and not do a lot of theological tap-dancing to try to prove an impossible position.
Your recourse to sarcasm continues to be a poor substitute for your lack of even one valid argument.
Now about this Mary, this Blessed Mary, this Blessed Virgin Mary. How could and why would Almighty God give her any power? By now, hopefully you realize that men have been given power from on high to bind and loose sins, indeed “uncrowned men” (What a phrase??? Where on earth ... oh, never mind) can do GREATER WORKS THAN ALMIGHTY GOD HIMSELF.
Being utterly unable to show any place in Scripture where saints are prayed to, or directing angels, or holding back judgment or the devil from Heaven, you must resort to arguing from what God could do in order to validate doctrines, by which invalid hermeneutic Mormons also can validate their additions to Scripture.
Meanwhile it remains that your real basis for doctrine is the the novel and unScriptural premise of Rome's ensured perpetual magisterial infallibility.
“Blasphemy!”, you say. And more, “The elect are not even crowned until the Lord returns, and nowhere is Mary said to be given such power in the wholly inspired word of God ...” A quick aside here ... if you are going to call yourself a Bible-believing Christian, it’s about high time for you to get off the stick and really start reading the Bible. Sheesh.
Again, your recourse to sarcasm continues to be a poor substitute for your lack of even one valid argument, and your wresting of Scripture to compel to support what it does not is a poor substitute for ignorance of it. Go and show where any of the the elect will be crowned and reign with Christ until the Lord returns, or where they even maintain all their functions on earth, and where Mary in Heaven said to be holding back judgment by her power. I have posted all the OT and almost all the NT , with commentary, online by the grace of God. Read it all, not simply what you can misuse to support traditions of men. >Power has been given to those that Christ, Almighty God, has designated. Now scripturally speaking, can Mary say she is holding back the hand of God? Yes. Could I do it too? Yes, again. You? Ummm, maybe, with a FEW, GIGANTIC re-triangulations in you theology! Ha! Here is the sovereign word of Jesus Christ, King of the Universe, Almighty God: John 14:12 “Amen, amen I say to you, he that believeth in me, the works that I do, he also shall do; and GREATER THAN THESE SHALL HE DO, because I go to the Father.”
You could save yourself some typing if you would just admit that you cannot find anyplace where saints are doing anything in Heaven but offering prayers as a memorial in the day of the Lord, (Rv. 5:8) and asking God when judgment will come, rather than holding it back, (Rv. 6:9,10) and in the future will judge men and angels (1Co. 6:2) and sit in His overcoming seat and reign with Christ on the earth. (Rv. 3:21; 5:10) The latter of which your church does not even believe in! And the very fact that saints ask the Lord when judgment will come testifies that they are not holding it back.
RCs even place most believers in a postmortem condition in which they apparently have less power than their physical abilities on earth availed them.
Moreover, it is arguable if any believers by their own power did any greater kinds of works than Christ except collectively in quantity, and no where do we see Mary even doing any miracles by her power, and the Lord's response to her seeking to see Him was to equate all who did the will of His Father to be His mother, and brethren. (Mt,. 12:46-50)
So yes, Mary, the “lowly handmaid of the Lord”, the Mother of Jesus, who is God; the Mother of God then, does have this power. Some men have more heavenly power by the grace of God than others, and so by her position as Mother of God, she has been given more power by the Trinity than any person on earth.
Are you serious? Do you really want to argue that since believers (not just apostles and claimed successors) are given grace to do miracles on earth, that this establishes that Mary in Heaven is alone holding back judgment from the earth by her power alone?! Rather, the Lord does not even provide evidence of Mary engaging in any miracles or exercising any unique power on earth. And contrary to cultic imaginations, the Lord does not give power to teach leaping logic speculation as fact. Thus, in addition to Scripture only showing the departed asking when God will exercise judgment, and once offering memorial prayers, and never having the degree of power as God, with all your bluster you are utterly unable to show Mary exercising such Divine power as you ascribe to her, or that as the God-bearer she has been given more power by the Trinity than any person on earth, leaving this to being another example of Rome adding to Scripture the traditions of men, to her own damnation.
Uh, backtracking a bit, another of those un-crowned guys, Elijah the Prophet, brought a drought upon the land. 1 Kings 17 “And Elijah the Tishbite, of the inhabitants of Gilead, said to Ahab, “As the Lord God of Israel lives, before whom I stand, there shall not be dew nor rain these years, except at my word.”
Which i already invoked, as it supports all believers having spiritual power to bind and to loose, yet which, as with other functions, is only shown exercised in this life.
(If nothing else, I hope to rid you of the ‘uncrowned men’ crapola.)
Your vulgar language reveals your ignorance and heart, as un-crowned refers to the fact that rather than Mary being crowned, this does not occur until the Lord's return. (1Cor. 4:5; 2Tim. 4:1,8; Rev.11:18; Mt. 25:31-46; 1Pt. 1:7; 5:4) You simply do not have believers having been crowned for faithfulness and works yet.
Another thing about Elisha, Elijah’s successor. Now I’m going to let you look this one up for yourself. Blow the dust off your Bible and see if you can find where the mere bones of Elisha brought a man back to life. I know, I know, you’re thinking this is one of those crazy Catholic stories they made up just to justify praying to saints, but guhead, giveera try. Chapter and verse please.
Your immature, utterly unwarranted arrogant insolence is rapidly marginalizing you as one who is unfit for intelligent debate. But lacking actual support, such recourse is typical.
That you even think 2Ki. 13:21 supports Mary and saints ruling now in glory, and sous on earth kneeling before a statue and praising the entity it represented in the unseen world, even with adulation, attributes, glory and titles never given in Scripture to created beings (except to false gods), including having the uniquely Divine power glory to hear and respond to virtually infinite numbers of prayers addressed to them, and beseeching such for Heavenly help, and making offerings to them, is absurd.
Now we come to the crux of your missive. You claim I have blasphemed. Your claim DOES have a precedent in scripture: John 10:36 “Do you say of him whom the Father hath sanctified and sent into the world: Thou blasphemest, because I said, I am the Son of God? 37”If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me; 38but if I do them, though you do not believe Me, BELIEVE THE WORKS, so that you may know and understand that the Father is in Me, and I in the Father.” In my letter in the Forum, I wrote about a public miracle in the 20th Century, witnessed by Catholics, Protestants, atheists and skeptics of all stripes. Photographs were taken during the event. Newspaper articles were written along with other testimonies of those present. A word to the wise Dan’l. Be extremely careful about what you call blasphemous, especially insofar as if you’re wrong, you are violating the 8th commandment. I do not believe you looked at the movie I discussed, nor did you research the Miracle itself. There is hard evidence about it. It is recorded, photographed history.
You have Mary saying, "Only my power, as Mother of God, is preventing the outbreak of the storm," Which adds: "All is hanging on a slender thread. When that thread shall snap, Divine Justice shall pounce upon the world and execute its dreadful, purging designs. All the nations shall be punished because sins, like a muddy river, are now covering all the earth." (http://www.mysticsofthechurch.com/2011/09/blessed-elena-aiello-mystic-stigmatic.htm) And which obviously pertains what is foretold in Revelation, which nowhere shows any saint having any power to hold back judgment by their power, much less uniquely having any unique power to do so. For instead the Holy Spirit shows that God is the only exercising His own power directly thru angels, and thus saints are only shown asking God (not Mary) when He will avenge their blood, which is a request to do so! Thus you are ascribing to Mary in Heaven a personal power only God is shown to have, and which is indeed blasphemy.
Again, as Christ said, paraphrasing, ‘If you cannot believe in Me, at least believe in the works I do.’ Look, see, believe, and stop thine unbelief. This public miracle was and is a warning from the Mother of Christ to mankind to stop sinning. If we do not do so, terrible consequences will follow. They already have in the form of the rise of communism and WW II.
Miracles by themselves do not establish what is true, only that the source is supernatural, and which is subject to the established word of God, and otherwise they an actually deceive souls which do not which. Thus the admonition, "prove all things," (1Ths. 5:21) and "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world." (1 John 4:1)
Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. (2 Thessalonians 2:9-10)
And by examination of these Marian communications in the light of Scripture then we know they are not of God, even by the very fact that nowhere in Scripture do believers pray to anyone in Heaven but the Lord, nor are told to address prayers to them in Heaven ("Our Father which art in Heaven," not "Our Mother..."), while the Holy Spirit sets forth Christ as the only heavenly incessant intercessor btwn God and man, (1Tim. 2:5; Heb. 7:25) ) and as the uniquely qualified immediate recourse to believers, by whose blood believers have direct access into the Holy of Holies in Heaven to commune with God, (Heb. 2:14-18; 4:15,16; not Mary or saintly secretaries! To the glory of God and the damnation of Catholicism and her idolators.
The roles of Mary are varied, but among them is a position similar to Moses in that she pleads for God’s mercy on His creation.
Which is fantasy, not wholly inspired Scriptural fact, which the humble holy Mary of Scripture would reject, and will be one of the jury that testifies against the Mariolators in their damnation, which added to the word of God in making her into a demigoddess Queen of Heaven, which is only pagan in Scripture!
We have been warned to pray, fast and do penance.
Indeed you have been. May God grant you repentance unto life in His mercy.