Posted on 05/19/2015 5:18:06 PM PDT by ebb tide
Many Catholics and others were puzzled by the appearance of Secretary General Ban Ki-moon, Professor Jeffrey Sachs and former Senator Tim Wirth as speakers or honored guests at a Vatican sponsored conference on global warming.
All three have spent years actively undermining Church teaching on questions of abortion and UN-style family planning, which includes active population control.
(Excerpt) Read more at breitbart.com ...
Excellent point.
Multiple vehicle gatherings
Use of a home as a religious facility
and so on.
As well as being shut down by home owners associations that want a special credit from the government in return for keeping hate speech and unapproved speech from fomenting hate within the association.
It's a complete fantasy to believe that taxing all those "bad churches" won't lead to taxing any religious expression not sanctioned by the "light bearers" running the government.
Ignore history and enjoy the illusion at your own risk.
Saint Catherine of Sienna would tell us to "calmly lie down to rest on his bosom."
“Even if the Pope were Satan incarnate, we ought not to raise up our heads against him, but calmly lie down to rest on his bosom. He who rebels against our Father is condemned to death, for that which we do to him we do to Christ: we honor Christ if we honor the Pope; we dishonor Christ if we dishonor the Pope. I know very well that many defend themselves by boasting: “They are so corrupt, and work all manner of evil!” But God has commanded that, even if the priests, the pastors, and Christ-on-earth were incarnate devils, we be obedient and subject to them, not for their sakes, but for the sake of God, and out of obedience to Him.”
St. Catherine of Siena, SCS, p. 201-202, p. 222, (quoted in Apostolic Digest, by Michael Malone, Book 5: “The Book of Obedience”, Chapter 1: “There is No Salvation Without Personal Submission to the Pope”)
http://indefenceoftheholyfather.blogspot.com/2013/12/saint-catherine-of-sienna-even-if-pope.html#!/2013/12/saint-catherine-of-sienna-even-if-pope.html
Please don’t ping me again. I will return the favor.
1,891 posted on Friday, December 21, 2012 12:38:42 by CynicalBear
==============================================
People who do not and cannot keep their word are by definition untrustworthy.
What about Saint Catherine of Sienna?
“Even if the Pope were Satan incarnate, we ought not to raise up our heads against him, but calmly lie down to rest on his bosom. He who rebels against our Father is condemned to death, for that which we do to him we do to Christ: we honor Christ if we honor the Pope; we dishonor Christ if we dishonor the Pope. I know very well that many defend themselves by boasting: “They are so corrupt, and work all manner of evil!” But God has commanded that, even if the priests, the pastors, and Christ-on-earth were incarnate devils, we be obedient and subject to them, not for their sakes, but for the sake of God, and out of obedience to Him.”
St. Catherine of Siena, SCS, p. 201-202, p. 222, (quoted in Apostolic Digest, by Michael Malone, Book 5: “The Book of Obedience”, Chapter 1: “There is No Salvation Without Personal Submission to the Pope”)
http://indefenceoftheholyfather.blogspot.com/2013/12/saint-catherine-of-sienna-even-if-pope.html#!/2013/12/saint-catherine-of-sienna-even-if-pope.html
So I suppose you don’t believe in repentance after all. I told you that I had to repent and admit I couldn’t allow the Catholic errors to stand without rebuke. I can understand that you would rather we not speak up but Catholicism must be refuted.
But here’s the thing: I was only speaking of immorality.
....”That’s the way I see it. Catholics are going to have some serious decisions to make”.....
The sooner they do the better for them. Though I’m very much skeptical they will ...their history shows they simply wait until the Vatican explains away the obvious sufficient for them to retain their delusions.
They do not want to believe their own eyes and heads.
She is not saying that we should follow any evil commands. She is saying that despite their evil ways we should still obey them in the Faith. We have had a number of evil popes. They still taught the Faith whole and entire. As a result, we obey them.
The historical record, the Vincentian Canon and the law of non-contradiction. No pope can contradict a previous pope in matters of faith and morals.
"The Sources of Catholic Dogma"
http://www.amazon.com/Sources-Catholic-Dogma-Henry-Denzinger/dp/1489592199
"Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma"
http://www.amazon.com/Fundamentals-Catholic-Dogma-Dr-Ludwig/dp/0895550091
"...Now in the Catholic Church itself we take the greatest care to hold that which has been believed everywhere, always and by all. That is truly and properly 'Catholic,' as is shown by the very force and meaning of the word, which comprehends everything almost universally. We shall hold to this rule if we follow universality [i.e. oecumenicity], antiquity, and consent. We shall follow universality if we acknowledge that one Faith to be true which the whole Church throughout the world confesses; antiquity if we in no wise depart from those interpretations which it is clear that our ancestors and fathers proclaimed; consent, if in antiquity itself we keep following the definitions and opinions of all, or certainly nearly all, bishops and doctors alike..."
Actually, the extremely low overhead of the house church would be an advantage if traditional churches start losing their 501c3 status. In those I’ve been exposed to, everybody has a day job, even the elders, including the teaching elders. So no salaries either. People maintain & clean up their own homes, so no one need be hired for that sort of thing. Funding for special needs in the congregation would fall under individual taxation rules, so some personal tax deductions may still apply. Overall, my information suggests that home-based fellowships spend almost nothing on administration and so are actually albe to do more with their money in terms of meeting real needs, even backing missionaries, etc. I’ve also heard their level of giving per individual is dramatically higher. That might have something to do with the extra level of commitment it takes to do house church.
So I don’t know. Is this really a bad thing? Maybe the 501c3 shelter has enabled us to live more lavishly than is good for us. Not to mention, once you’re no longer under the 501c3 rule, you can teach whatever you like and the IRS can’t say anything about it. I would think that would be liberating.
Peace,
SR
That's an interesting chain of command you guys have there. So it's ok for 'incarnate devils' to run your church just as long as you don't do what they say? Wow.
I know very well that many defend themselves by boasting: “They are so corrupt, and work all manner of evil!” But God has commanded that, even if the priests, the pastors, and Christ-on-earth were incarnate devils, we be obedient and subject to them, not for their sakes, but for the sake of God, and out of obedience to Him.”
Huh. You mean none of the Protestant leaders have ever committed major sins?
Ders a whole lota personal interpretin' goin' on out der. (That's a good thing)
I was going to go there but decided not to bother. Many Catholics don't get it let alone a Protestant.
Because a lot of them know more about it that most Catholics?
"One indeed is the universal Church of the faithful, outside which no one at all is saved, in which the priest himself is the sacrifice, Jesus Christ, whose body and blood are truly contained in the sacrament of the altar under the species of bread and wine; the bread (changed) into His body by the divine power of transubstantiation, and the wine into the blood, so that to accomplish the mystery of unity we ourselves receive from His (nature) what He Himself received from ours." — Pope Innocent III and Lateran Council IV (A.D. 1215)
Therefore, if anyone says that it is not by the institution of Christ the lord himself (that is to say, by divine law) that blessed Peter should have perpetual successors in the primacy over the whole Church; or that the Roman Pontiff is not the successor of blessed Peter in this primacy: let him be anathema. — Vatican 1, Ses. 4, Cp. 1
Pope Stephen VI (896–897), who had his predecessor Pope Formosus exhumed, tried, de-fingered, briefly reburied, and thrown in the Tiber.[1]
Pope John XII (955–964), who gave land to a mistress, murdered several people, and was killed by a man who caught him in bed with his wife.
Pope Benedict IX (1032–1044, 1045, 1047–1048), who "sold" the Papacy
Pope Boniface VIII (1294–1303), who is lampooned in Dante's Divine Comedy
Pope Urban VI (1378–1389), who complained that he did not hear enough screaming when Cardinals who had conspired against him were tortured.[2]
Pope Alexander VI (1492–1503), a Borgia, who was guilty of nepotism and whose unattended corpse swelled until it could barely fit in a coffin.[3]
Pope Leo X (1513–1521), a spendthrift member of the Medici family who once spent 1/7 of his predecessors' reserves on a single ceremony[4]
Pope Clement VII (1523–1534), also a Medici, whose power-politicking with France, Spain, and Germany got Rome sacked.
There's no 'infallible' teaching that any Protestant or Evangelical churches have to keep 'incarnate devils' as their pastors. The situation is much different. Evangelical churches don't have imperial leaders who we have to obey when they are morally or doctrinally wrong. The elders and members of the church either remove such an 'incarnate devil' or if entrenched shake the dust off their feet and move on to a church in obedience.
You don't have to be bound by 'incarnate devils.' But for some reason Catholics have to become apologists for 'incarnate devils' from time to time.
HEY!
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