Posted on 05/17/2015 5:59:53 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
A common question for many is, "Can I lose my salvation?" I've heard both sides of the argument, and only God truly knows a person's heart, but I can share a few thoughts. The reason there is a debate is because the Scriptures teach that salvation is a gift from God that cannot be earned, but they also offer warnings about falling away. There should be a healthy tension between God's sovereignty and man's responsibility. This issue should not create a spirit of division, elitism, or theological superiority.
One school of thought suggests that salvation cannot be lost, as in losing your car keys, but that it can be left, as in walking away from it. This may be why Jesus spoke of the man who said in his heart "my master delays His coming; therefore, I will turn from living a godly life". When the master returned unexpectedly, the servant was banished because he chose to turn from what he knew to be right.
In another passage, Jesus said, "You have left your first love," when speaking to the church in Ephesus (Revelation 2:4). James 5:19-20 adds, if anyone wanders from the truth and someone turns him back, a soul is saved from death. If anything, these Scriptures, and many more, reinforce the fact that we have certain responsibilities.
We should never turn from what we know to be right. Jesus encouraged His followers to be watchful, prepared, and ready for His return. Are we watchful? Are we prepared? Are we ready? (Read Matthew 24:45-51; Luke 21:34.) The Scriptures offer a healthy tension between God's sovereignty and man's responsibility.
The other school of thought suggests that some of those passages are dealing with people who never fully surrendered to Christ. As a result, they fell away. They heard the gospel, but never fully embraced it and turned from their sins; they only had "intellectual" knowledge of salvation. According to this view, the real question isn't, "Can a person lose their salvation" but "Was the person really saved to begin with?"
Titus 1:16 and James 2:14 both conclude that many people "say" that they know God, but deny Him by their lifestyle. I John 2:19 suggests that those who acknowledge Christ initially, but deny Him later, are not saved to begin with: "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us."
When it comes to salvation, we all agree that God gets all the glory and all the credit. Salvation is His work. We are never outside of His sovereignty and control: "It is God who makes us stand firm in Christ" (2 Corinthians 1:21). I am convinced, like Paul, "that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord" (Romans 8:38-39). Nothing can separate us from God, but we should never ignore the strong warnings about turning from Him.
When we believe the gospel and repent of our sin we "are sealed with the promised Holy Spirit who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession" (Ephesians 1:13-14). These promises are not based on anything that we do; they are based on what Christ did. John 3:36 says, "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life." Jesus adds, "I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand" (John 10:28). Again, "It is God (not us) who makes us stand firm in Christ." For this reason, I don't believe that we can lose it.
Our salvation is guaranteed based on the assurances found in Scripture, but we also must "work out our own salvation with fear and trembling" (cf. Philippians 2:12). My goal is to be faithful to the command to preach, witness, and proclaim while understanding that God does the drawing, saving, and sealing.
Again, I believe that there should be a healthy tension between God's sovereignty and man's responsibility. This issue should not create a spirit of division, elitism, or theological superiority. At the heart of the division is Calvinism vs. Arminianism. Sadly, brother is shooting brother and sister is wounding sister. Have we forgotten how to show grace to those in the Body who we disagree with? Those who believe you can lose your salvation should not chide those who believe in eternal security - "once saved always saved" is by no means a license to sin - it's a belief in God's guarantee. But on the flip side, those who embrace eternal security should not mock those who disagree.
I can hear it now, "But what about Hebrews 6:4-6." It says, "It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace."
Based on my understanding of terms such as "enlightened," "tasted," and "shared," they are not necessarily words linked to salvation. Judas Iscariot was enlightened—he knew a great deal. He also tasted and shared in the ministry of Christ, but we all know his fate. When he fell away, repentance was elusive. His fate was sealed. However, this verse should force all Christians to take inventory.
We all sin and fall short, but the important question to ask is what is the condition of your heart—have you truly repented and believed in Christ as your Lord and Savior, or are you trusting in false assurance? This may be why Paul said in 2 Corinthians 13:5, "Examine yourself as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?"
Our actions reveal a great deal about our relationship with Christ. A.W. Tozer said: "When people find that after being in the church for years they are not making much progress, they ought to examine themselves and wonder whether they have been truly converted."
Has your heart become so hard as to reject Jesus Christ? If so, you can change that today. I'm aware that I'm driving this point home, but I'd rather err on the side of speaking too much about a committed relationship with Jesus than too little. It's never too late to get back on track: "Return to me, and I will return to you," says the Lord (Micah 3:7). God is sovereign but man has a responsibility to repent and return.
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Shane Idleman is the founder and lead pastor of Westside Christian Fellowship in Lancaster, California, just North of Los Angeles. He just released his 7th book, Desperate for More of God. Shane's sermons, articles, books, and radio program can all be found at www.wcfav.org.
Another issue, related to not putting off your salvation experience. Aside from the fact that we don’t know when we will croak, I think that the older one gets, the harder their hearts get, and the less chance they have of repenting. Never impossible, just less likely. Your thoughts.
Well Els meister, I are gladded up, dat yous did not done kick that ole bucket out der. but even if ya done did, I's a thunkin in mah hade, yous would not have gone to that bad plece called heck, cuz you done did got ya self all saved up, and you done did believe to da savin ta ya sole. 😂😱😀😆😇 Fur dem grammar/spealling poolice, und dey done knows who dey is. 😂😎😱😄
**That’s an option, too.**
I make the ‘prophesying’ opinion off of more than the lack of an immediate confirming in the following verses. I compare with the other testamonies:
1. Of couse, the tarrying in Jerusalem for the ‘promise of the Father’.
2. The actual pouring out of the Holy Ghost in Acts 2.
3. The conversion of Cornelius and his household.
Peter, and they of the circumcision, realized that the Gentiles had received the same gift for they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God.
10:44 “...the Holy Ghost fell on all them that heard the word.”
10:45 “...on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
10:47 “..have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?”
(’received’ here, and ‘receive’ in John 20:22, but the same Greek word)
11:15 “..the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on US at the BEGINNING.”
11:17 “God gave them the like gift as he did unto us who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ..”.
As we can see from those passages, there were several ways to explain the same experience:
‘filled with the Holy Ghost’ (Acts 2:4)
‘the Holy Ghost fell on all them’
‘poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost’
‘received the Holy Ghost’
‘the Holy Ghost fell on them’
‘the like gift’
Peter refers to that Pentecost experience as the ‘beginning’, and that the Gentiles’ experience was the same.
Anyway, that’s a more complete explanation than the one this morning, as I was pressed to get rolling.
God bless.
SAF: Can Christians Lose Their Salvation?
DM: No.
Well, DM, you are right, IF you understand that people that STAY Christians can’t lose their salvation. It’s the ones that STOP being Christians that lose their salvation.
As Paul Harvey used to say, and now, the rest of the story.....
Problem is we don't have the rest of the story. All we're left with is that Demos had deserted Paul. We know nothing of what happened to him and his relationship with Christ after this.
To draw a conclusion would be making a presumption.
I don't think we're in a position to do this.
If the casual reader of the NT read the account of Peter denying Christ without the rest of the story, would they draw the same conclusion as you regarding Demos?
Context gives the answer in this case. Back up to 1 Cor 9:15 and read through v27.
If we took one verse out of context we could read into v24 the notion that only one person would win the prize of salvation. But we know that is not the case.
Paul is not talking about the loss of salvation here.
Read the text again, in context, and see if you get the meaning.
Christianity was a brand new religion during the time of the Acts of the Apostles and almost all their knowledge of Jesus came from first hand accounts they heard from others. It's not surprising the newly baptized Christians of that era hadn't been informed about the Holy Spirit yet. It would also be difficult convincing those Christians that the bible alone is the sole source of authority, seeing as there was no "bible" yet.
I just got done showing the exact scripture passages that demonstrate that a second ceremony with Holy Spirit needs to be done AFTER baptism to complete Christian initiation. You just chose to ignore it because your particular Christian denomination has abandoned that custom and simply does not abide by the new testament rules that the apostles established.
Perhaps its your turn now. Would you please show the scripture that says scripture ALONE is the sole source of authority?
Pharaoh hardened his own heart against the word from God beyond repentance (Ex. 5:1,2), so God hardened his heart further (Ex. 7:13-14).
From experience, I believe this is a reality today of having lost the ability to grieve unto repentance (2 Cor. 7:10); from God's Word that it will be so even after the removal of the people of Christ (Rev. 9:20,21; 16:21); and also throughout the thousand year reign of Christ (Is. 65:20), until the last judgment..
What do your observations indicate?
You seem to be confused. Catholics do NOT go around using the term that they've been "saved". I've only met Protestants who tell everyone that they're "saved". Catholics believe salvation is a LIFELONG process and God will determine salvation in the afterlife, not that you get "saved" instantly at a particular moment of your life.
From your very own home page:
America is a democratic republic (sorry all you freepers who argue with the dictionary definition and believe "we're not a democracy", you're wrong).
I guess the early Christians at Pentecost would disagree with you as would Cornelius.
Those early Christians, while it is true did not have the Bible as we have today, did have the OT which was considered the text of the day. If you read Acts you will see it is quoted a great deal.
On that point, I'd certainly agree. Baptism does NOT magically "save" anyone. It erases the stain of original sin and introduces them into a Christian life. What happens next is up to them. Many people who have been baptized have gone on to renounce their faith and committed horrible sins. There are probably quite a few baptized people in hell.
>> You are sealed with the Holy Spirit at the moment of your faith in Christ whether you are baptized or not. <<
By definition, being sealed with the Holy Spirit and initiated into the Christian faith would be a baptism, whether its an official "ceremony" and whether water is used or not. The Catholic Church also recognizes baptism by blood (those killed for refusing to deny Christ) and baptism by desire (like the thief on the cross who told Christ that he accepted him). Those are still "baptisms", just not the far more common version we associate with entry into the Christian faith -- a ceremony where the person is covered in water and baptized in the name of the trinity by another Christian. Again, under Catholic canon law, baptism by desire and baptism by blood would be equally valid as a water baptism.
>> Baptism is an outward expression of an inward conversion. Baptism without faith and repentance just gets you a wet sinner. <<
Repentance is an important part of baptism, including the renouncing of Satan and all his works before a baptism can occur. However, from its inception, it was the norm in Christianity, east and west, that an individual did not need to make an outward statement or profession of faith to be baptized. It was only in the 1600s that Christian denominations sprung up that denied the validity of infant baptism. Today, the vast majority of Christian churches in the world -- Catholic, Orthodox, and protestant alike -- continue to practice infant baptism. Those who deny its validity are a small minority within Christianity.
"All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out."
Same Bible as yours, John 6:37
Catholics sure seem to make up a lot of stuff that is outside the bible.
They were probably quite familiar with the old testament and quoted it a great deal when spreading the good news of Jesus Christ. They had probably read and memorized many of its passages as well. However, I think its unlikely they had a COMPLETE, printed copy of ALL the canonical old testament books readily available, unless they were some authoritative Jewish scholar of that era. It was extremely difficult for the "average person" to obtain such things before the printing press was invented.
One thing I can say for certain is they wouldn't have believed in sola scriptura, since the very earliest Christians came out of the Jewish faith, and the concept of "Torah alone" being sufficient authority has ALWAYS been considered a tiny fringe movement in Judaism. (This is known as "Karaite Judaism", a belief that oral tradition is invalid and later Jewish historical sources like Midrash or Talmud have no bearing on their faith because they are not part of scripture. Mainstream Judaism views the Karaites as "not true Jews")
It seems to me that many so-called "Bible believing" Protestant Churches make up tons of stuff that is outside the bible, such as churches that preach all alcohol is evil, come up with the idea of handling live snakes in church, forbid dancing, have "marriages" between two men, etc., etc. A lot of my customers at my job are from black protestant churches and I always find their church literature amusing. Their ministers invent grandiose titles for themselves like "The High Honorable Rev. Prophetess Cleophanous Jones, Seer of Truth". I don't know where they get this stuff from, but its certainly not the Bible.
I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee. For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me. I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them. And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
Are you saying you don't believe the Bible? Or isn't John in your Bible?
Yes, I get it. Sin is deceitful, and I believe a lifetime of continual sin, results in hardening of the heart, a certain callousness and "scarring" of the heart, so for many, who actually reach their deathbeds, they can no longer respond to the gospel. Their hearts are SO scarred from sin, that for them, it's OVER, eternally. Behold, today is the day of salvation.
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