The True Church and the Bible

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[ravenwolf]

Forty five years ago I was of a mind that if there was a disagreement on Biblical teaching all we had to do was go to the scriptures or not go there depending if it was there or not.

You could not always convince some one or they could not always convince you.

But at least if you pointed out something Jesus said they did not retaliate by saying Oh Yeah well that is not what Paul said.

The point is that so many people are going to stick to their way of thinking regardless of what Jesus said or what he did not say.

I don`t know anything about St. Ignatius and at this stage in life have no desire to become a Bible scholar just to become acquainted with him.

I believe the holy spirit gave us what we need to know by bringing us the Bible through men who was far from holy and in many cases against their will.

And there might even be a few mistakes or rather contradictions in the Bible but who cares? we have all we need to know.

I have been reminded that it took the great scholars to put the scriptures together, big deal.

I am just glad the scriptures of the N.T were not written by the great scholars but were written by people mostly who had very little education.

When Jesus was telling them that they had to eat his flesh and drink his blood he also said.

If then you shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?

63 It is the spirit that quickeneth: the flesh profiteth nothing. The words that I have spoken to you, are spirit and life.

If we except the words of Jesus we are eating his flesh and drinking his blood.

Many of his disciples left him because they believed he was speaking literal even though he told them the flesh profited nothing.

I also can see the Catholic`s view point on some other issues.

[NKP_Vet]

Just kidding, we all know that the Church of Jim Jones was the true Church, or maybe the Church of Joel Osteen. Pardon me for being so stupid.

[ealgeone]

Any historical documentation that shows the Catholic Church to be the one true church is immediately discredited and slammed by the usual Catholic bashers on FR. Same story, different day.

And as the catholic facts have been proven incorrect, the question begs to be asked.....why do you keep posting the same false narrative over and over again?

[ealgeone]

Just kidding, we all know that the Church of Jim Jones was the true Church, or maybe the Church of Joel Osteen. Pardon me for being so stupid.

Or maybe all those churches devoted to Mary in the catholic organization??

[daniel1212]

You done did it now

One RC fantasy after another exposed by God's grace, from eating the flesh of the Son of Man and drinking his blood being required in order to obtain spiritual life, to the premise that an assuredly infallible magisterium is essential for God to provide and preserve Truth, to "One billion Catholics perfectly, indomitably united in belief, in organization, and in worship."

[metmom]

They aren’t done away with.

They are not binding on the Christian who died to the Law and is now under grace in Christ.

[HossB86]

Any historical documentation that shows the Catholic Church to be the one true church is immediately discredited and slammed by the usual Catholic bashers on FR. Same story, different day.

Well, when the "historical documentation" is continually shown to be contrary to God's word, it IS discredited. All we're doing is pointing out the FACTS that disprove the cult of Roman Catholicism.

Care to state whether or not you agree with your church that you worship the same 'merciful God' as Muslims? CCC 841 plainly states that Roman Catholics do. Do you agree with Rome? Or are you poorly catechized?

Hoss

[Mark17]

20 Nevertheless, do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven.”

Affirmative sir. Your name is written in Heaven, my name is written in Heaven. I do not plan to wait till I die to see if it is possible that I might be good enough for St Pete to open them pearly gates, and let me in. If others want to do it, that's on them, but it ain't gonna cut the mustard for me. 🇵🇭🙊

[Yosemitest]

‘S’alrite.

[metmom]

The one true church is the Corintian church.

Paul says so right here in his letter to the Corinthians.

1 Corinthians 12:27. Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it.

In the first chapter, when he was rebuking the Corintian church for infighting he did mention Peter and yet NEVER took the opportunity to assert Peter's alleged supremacy, which would have been the perfect time to do so. He never even mentioned it.

[Yosemitest]

You have been deceived.
That is Satan's trick.

Read again

" Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven;
but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. "

And read again:

" But he that heareth , and doeth not,
is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth;
against which the stream did beat vehemently ,
and immediately it fell ;
and the ruin of that house was great. "

Are we not judged by our INDIVIDUAL ACTIONS ?
Shouldn't judgement begin with US ?

Our ACTIONS matter as we go through this fiery trial, and every action we take, every idle word we speak, we WILL answer for.

And so it has been written, and so IT SHALL BE DONE.

Can you remember reading about "a thorn in their side"?

"But if ye will not drive out the inhabitants of the land from before you;
then it shall come to pass,
that those which ye let remain of them
shall be pricks in your eyes,
and thorns in your sides,
and shall vex you in the land wherein ye dwell.
Moreover
it shall come to pass,
that I shall do unto you,
as I thought to do unto them."

Someone once said:

"The only way one can accept the truth and retain their sanity is to trust God."

They may be more to it than that.
Doing is important.
I believe the "fiery trial" has already started.
We haven't been very diligent " ... to keep and to do all that is written in the book of the law of Moses ... "
and there are consequences for our actions and in-actions.
We are living in the time of those consequences.

[metmom]

bookmark

[aMorePerfectUnion]

“Sure they can. Internal markers help. You never did any manuscript studies of any sort did you? Paleography? Philology? Anything at all? I did.”

Yes, but there is a difference between “help” and authoritatively.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

“Any historical documentation that shows the Catholic Church to be the one true church is immediately discredited and slammed by the usual Catholic bashers on FR. Same story, different day.”

If it were true, I would not discount its historical value.

[metmom]

The righteous life of Christ has been credited to my account, the record of debt standing against me having been nailed to the cross.

Salvation is by faith in Christ, and even if we are judged by our deeds, since I have Christ’s righteous credited to my account, that’s what God sees, so I don’t need to have my own, which are not really righteous in the first place.

More later.

I will provide any Scripture references later today if you want. when I’m on my home computer.

If I don’t answer for several hours, I’m not ignoring you. I’m travelijng.

[Mark17]

And as the catholic facts have been proven incorrect, the question begs to be asked.....why do you keep posting the same false narrative over and over again?

What are you doing, writing a book? 😂😆 Actually, I was kind of wondering the same thing myself. I guess it will just have to remain one of life's great mysteries.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

“authenticity of those letters is verified by Polycarp and Eusebius who give the contents and order of the letters.”

No, there remain deep problems with the books, the different versions of the books, the dates, and the historicity of Ignatius.

[Yosemitest]

What are the wages of sin?
What IS sin?
Was "the Sabbath" kept BEFORE Sinai?
What have you learned from 1 John 2:3, 4?
Does Gen. 20:1-9 teach you that "the Law" was enforced long before Sinai?
Who made the Sabbath ( John 1:1-3Gen. 2:2-3) ?
Do you even know what a perpetual covenant IS ?
Is that SIGN for Israel ONLY ( Romans 1:16, Galatians 3:28-29 )?
SO ... do YOU WEAR the SIGN ... or ... the MARK of the beast?

Think you,

that Jesus came to do away with the Law ?

God forbid !

A wise man one said in a meeting I attended in person:

Sin is the breaking of God's law.
Repenting of sin means being sorry you have broken God's law.
If you are sorry, it means you do not intend breaking His law any further!
Let's illustrate it this way:
You live in a society which must be regulated according to various laws.
There are federal, state, county and local laws which regulate practically every act and deed.
Whether we are speaking here of federal laws, civil codes or simply traffic laws, the same principle applies.

You are required in order to retain your freedom and your citizenship to obey the laws of our country.
If you break some of them, it may only require a fine or a very small penalty, or even a warning, and you will be allowed to remain free.

Breaking others can be far more serious.
Grand theft, larceny, arson, robbery, burglary, auto theft or murder could get you thrown behind bars
(not withstanding the terrible laxity of the courts today).

Let's suppose you have done precisely this.

Maybe, caught up in an emotional state with wrong companions, you perpetrate some act which is clearly against the law.
Let's assume you are arrested and in due time brought to trial.
But, during the trial, just as the judge has imposed upon you a terrific fine which you would never be able to pay— say, a million dollars—
a completely unknown stranger, your benefactor, stands and says,
"Your honor, I believe this man is seriously contrite.
I believe he got caught up in the emotion of the moment and was under the influence of some evil companions.
I feel he is a man of integrity and wishes truly to mend his ways and live a better life.

"Therefore, I am willing to pay his fine myself so he can go free, and he doesn't need to pay this penalty!"

Although it probably wouldn't happen in our society, it does illustrate the point.
The judge (as a type of God the Father) would say to the benefactor (who is a type of Jesus Christ and His sacrifice for our own sins),
"That will be fine!
You may step up and pay the court $1 million and we will write on the court records
that the man who has been accused is free to go."

Then the judge may look at you, the person who has been arrested, tried and sentenced, and say,
"You are free to go.
But don't ever get caught up in that kind of a situation again!"

Do you see?

You are required, as a citizen of a free country, to obey its laws, or else

In the case of God's divine laws, you are required, whether you know about them or not (ignorance of the law is no excuse), whether you are a Christian, a professing Christian or whatever, to obey God's Ten Commandments.

Though people by the millions freely break the Ten Commandments every single day, they are unknowingly coming under the penalty of the law, which is death! (Romans 6:23).

When you repent, you are saying to God you are deeply sorry you have broken His laws.

Jesus Christ of Nazareth as the counsel for the defense says to God, the Righteous Judge, that He believes in your profession of repentance
and is willing to allow His own sacrifice to be applied in your case!

Then, just as Jesus said to the woman taken in the very act of adultery, God will say the same thing to you,
"Neither do I condemn thee; go and sin no more!"


True repentance, then, means
being deeply sorry you have broken God's Ten Commandments,
resolving through the power of God's Holy Spirit and the help of Jesus Christ as your daily High Priest and Intercessor,
not to break the Ten Commandments henceforth.

Don't fall into Satan's deception of believing that God's Laws , The Ten Commandments are done away with.

[The_Reader_David]

So you’ve been taught.

Only Constantinople had removed Rome from the Diptychs in the early 11th century, and come the date you Latins favor for the schism, Patriarch Michael only anathamatized the very rude Cardinal Humbert, not the Pope of Rome. The other Eastern Patriarchates were still in communion with Rome, or so they thought, until the Crusaders started forcibly installing bishops in occupied sees making it clear that you Latins felt you confessed a different faith from us. We didn’t change the Creed in defiance of decrees of the Ecumenical Council and contrary to the plain word of Scripture, we didn’t change ecclesiology, we didn’t introduce novel doctrines about purgatorial fire, the West did.

Your version of events hangs on the thin reed of the papal claims, which even folks in your communion at that time your First Vatican Council doubted, and which the East had never accepted — numerous canons of the Ecumenical Councils and of councils given ecumenical force at the Sixth make no sense if the ancient and undivided Church had believe your ecclesiology. The weight of patristic opinion is that the rock on which the Church is founded is Peter’s confession, not Peter’s person. Even were the latter true, it is rather a stretch to get from there to the monarchical papacy and an ecclesiology contrary to that found in both St. Ignatius and St. Cyprian on the basis of the poetic identification of sees with their founder, a stretch the Popes of Rome themselves only made as they gradually arrogated power to themselves (cf. St. Gregory the Dialogist’s objection to the title Ecumenical Patriarch being applied to the Patriarch of Constantinople, based on misunderstanding ecumencial as universal, rather than “for the oecume” meaning the Empire, which no longer contained the city of Rome, and which objection explicitly both denies the universal authority of the Pope of Rome and acknowledges the Petrine foundations of Antioch and Alexandria (St. Peter consecrated St. Mark the Evangelist to be the first Bishop of Alexandraia)), a process only completed after your schism when the Popes started arrogantly claiming that being in communion with the Pope of Rome was necessary for salvation.

[NKP_Vet]

“God’s word”.

Is what that Catholic document called the Bible tells you it is.