Posted on 05/16/2015 2:51:31 PM PDT by NYer
From a reader…
QUAERITUR:
While discussing the ecclesial status of someone baptized by an SSPX priest (is the newly baptized person Catholic?), I had a troubling thought: what about someone who is baptized by a Catholic woman who has pretended to be ordained as a priest? Is that newly baptized person considered Catholic? I tend to think not, since these women have gone to non-Catholic bishops to simulate their ordination. I’d be interested in hearing your thoughts. Thanks for all your work.
Every priest has a story about a “grandmother baptizing in the bathroom sink.” Usually it’s a pious woman, motivated by sincere faith and love for a grandchild whose parents have sadly neglected their responsibilities, or even more sadly, those parents have fallen away from the faith. Therefore sweet, loving grandma baptizes little Claudius in the bathroom sink and now wants the baptism registered as a Catholic baptism. Ideally, grandma has a witness (e.g. grandpa, or Uncle Kenny who stood guard at the door of the bathroom lest his apostate sister get suspicious), and she has used the correct formula to baptize (we can oftentimes be more certain that grandma knows and uses the correct formula than Fr. Lovebeads at Our Lady Queen of Group Process). If so, then we can go ahead and record this as a valid Catholic baptism. In that case, there can be a ceremony in which some of the things that were not done in the inform, “emergency” baptism can be “supplied”.
Holy Church, mindful of Christ’s injunction, wants everyone to be baptized, and so makes it very easy to do. While a bishop, priest, or deacon is the ordinary minister of baptism, any member of the faithful – and even an unbaptized person! – who intends to do what the Church does can validly baptize. Everyone should know the baptismal formula and be ready to use it in emergency situations. Also, it is assumed that if the person, even the unbaptized atheist, uses the correct form and pours the water properly intends, by those correct acts and words, to do what the Church intends.
So, back to the case at hand. This case is not dissimilar from the familiar “grandma in the bathroom” scenario. Except in this case, grandma is a bit more deluded. She thinks she’s a priest.
It’s sort of like watching a little boy running around pretending to be a firetruck. Pretending doesn’t make it so, but its amusing to watch.
Presuming that grandma the wannabe stuck to the formula and didn’t introduce any crazy terminology into the Trinitarian invocation, and presuming that she had some broad (no insult intended) intention to do what the Church intends, the baptism is putatively valid.
Just as in the case of the grandma and the bathroom sink, the child should be brought to a real church in short order to have the remaining ceremonies supplied, and the parents should make a good, solid confession (including confessing schism and possible heresy) to be received back into the good graces of our Holy Mother Church.
Ping!
I will catch hell for this but.
Maybe one should ask the fake pope?
The child is indeed validly baptized.....I can baptize, you can baptize, nurses and doctors probably do it often.
Well, at least “the Sanctifier” sound better but more mysterious than the misstatement “Father, Son and Whole Wheat Toast.” as one story about a child learning about the Trinity is suppose to have said. (humor and sarcasm)
Not really...on this site a lot of people make real, real, stupid statements....join the crowd!!!
Baptism does not require a priest. All it requires is the intention and the words given in the Bible: “I baptize you [name], in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost [or the Holy Spirit].” Particularly in an emergency, or if there is any doubt about the child’s survival, anyone can and should baptize the child.
If there is any question about the validity, it is good to have a conditional baptism in addition, properly administered by a Priest in Church.
I was baptized properly as a child in a High Anglican church belonging to an order of nuns. No doubt about it. My Aunt who witnessed it was still alive, and I had my baptismal certificate. But nevertheless I received a conditional baptism by a Priest when I became a Catholic—just to put it on record and be sure.
The baptizer is no magician nor are any magical, mystical things going on ... it's just putting on a wedding ring ..... whether at the church for an elaborate $100,000.00 or $35.00 for a license at the magistrate .... it's a ring on a finger with the vow.
I was looking for this since I baptized one of my sons as he was turning blue in the oxygen tent. We did the follow-up as you suggest.
**If there is any question about the validity, it is good to have a conditional baptism in addition, properly administered by a Priest in Church.**
I’m convinced that the influence of the devil keeps those who claim to be Catholic from doing what they can do properly properly. How many heretic priests are there who the Church has failed to excommunicate, but who are hell-bent on screwing up the Eucharist so it’s not valid?
Remember, God permits the existence of the devil for his own aims.
“I will catch hell for this but.
Maybe one should ask the fake pope?”
Have a fake pope, attract fake priests.
I baptized every one of my kids and some of my grandkids. They were then taken to the Church to have the paperwork completed where the priest chose to “make sure” I had done it right.
I had.
I used to watch a preacher on TV, Basel Barret Baxter of the Campbellite Church of Christ. He admonished everyone to get baptized by immersion for “remission of sin”. He then ended his message with ...”If there is no Church of Christ near you, a friend can do it for you”.
I’ve often wondered, if a person who is non Christian or even a pagan, can they baptize someone in the name of the Trinity? I have NEVER seen it anywhere in Scripture. And what if that “friend” is a secret devil worshiper or mormon?
Now, what if the female priest really thinks she is a man? After all, the LGBT-&tc thinks that’s ok.
Even the money-grubbing faith-healers play into his hands because the people they scams end up with the real thing, in their hearts, where it really counts.
Matter of fact, it happened to me a second time. My mother came from a Florentine family. She was never religious, and never went to church, although my Aunt persuaded her to have me go to Episcopal Church as a child. Anyway, when she got old and my step-father died and she started getting senile dementia, I talked to her about the desirability of going to church, which would have provided her with what she needed at that time in her life.
She answered that she didn’t see how there could be a God, because there was so much pain and suffering in the world. I suggested that she read C.S. Lewis, “The Problem of Pain,” but I couldn’t convince her.
Later, she descended much further into dementia and had to go into a nursing home. I found a Catholic nursing home for her, partly because the nuns and nurses were so caring. She developed the habit of going to Mass in her wheel chair—maybe for the company, maybe for something to do. I asked her if she wanted to be a Catholic, and this time she said yes. Since I didn’t know if she had been baptized (non-religious Italians tended to go to church for baptism, marriage, and funerals, but not always), I talked it over with one of the nuns and a priest, and my mother agreed to be conditionally baptized. So for many years in the nursing home, she went to Mass, annual confession, regular communion, and last rites at the end. It was a wonderful ending to her rather painful life.
Not that much, but when it happens of necessity, usually in the delivery room, as Heaven comes down and touches Earth, the electricity in the room practically crackles.
Very, very dramatic.
Ask Rick Santorum.
I like his last comment — especially about confessing schism and possible heresy.
**Just as in the case of the grandma and the bathroom sink, the child should be brought to a real church in short order to have the remaining ceremonies supplied, and the parents should make a good, solid confession (including confessing schism and possible heresy) to be received back into the good graces of our Holy Mother Church.**
That was an uncalled for comment.
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