Should the Vatican Sell its Treasures…

Catholic Convert ^ | May 15, 2015 | Steve Ray

[NYer]

… to feed the poor?

Geez, I used to say that myself in my former life as a Protestant – when I was an anti-Catholic. Actually, if you added up all wealth and property of the Protestant churches and organizations it would FAR exceed that of the Vatican or all the individual dioceses around the world! Since it is often Protestants who make this challenge, do they ever suggest Protestants should sell all their land, buildings, pastors’ fancy cars and the mega-church $ millions?

Most people don’t realize that most of the Catholic Church’s “wealth” is in property, hospitals, schools, social services and churches. We are the largest health care provider in the world. To learn more about this, watch the fantastic video put out by www.CatholicsComeHome.com here. Click on “Epic Commercial.” This video make me PROUD to be a Catholic!

But, should the Catholic Church sell everything to feed the poor? No, first it shouldn’t and second it can’t. To find out why, read this article from Zenit (provided below). It was written several years ago but it is the same cogent argument and needs to be repeated often.

Pope Cannot Exchange Vatican Treasure for Food: Cardinal Explains Complications of Facebook Proposal

By Jesús Colina

VATICAN CITY,  (Zenit.org).- The proposal of a member of the social networking Web site Facebook suggesting that the Vatican should exchange its treasures for food in Africa is an impossibility due to international law, says Cardinal Paul Josef Cordes.

The president of the Pontifical Council Cor Unum … commented on the online petition titled “Exchange the Vatican’s Treasures for Food for Africa. Do You Want to Sign a Petition?”

The cardinal noted that, apart from the ideological aspect of the proposal, the Pope cannot consider it because he is prevented from doing so by international law…

Alberto Juesas Escudero of Spain launched the initiative, which now has more than 40,000 supporters. Escudero claims “it is a shameful to see the Vatican’s riches and then watch the news.” He explained that what motivated him to issue this invitation was that he believes the Vatican “does not admit its errors. [...] It does not preach by example. Jesus was born in a cave and lived in poverty.”

The youth concluded: “The Vatican is a disgrace! The Catholic religion is a disgrace!”

In answer to ZENIT’s questions, Cardinal Cordes explained that he has heard similar proposals for the past 40 years, and that before it was even much more frequent.

When John Paul II called him to Rome to work in the Curia, he observed that “the climate against the Vatican was very strong.” He explained, “I had looked into [the status of the Vatican’s holdings] and found out that the Church cannot do what it wants with the works of art that are in the Vatican.”

"Going once, going twice...sold! How much for this Pieta?

Duty of the Church

In reality, he said, the Church “has the duty to conserve the works of art in the name of the Italian state.” He affirmed, “It cannot sell them.”
 
The prelate recalled an incident in the 1970s when a benefactor made a donation to renovate the Collegio Teutonico inside the Vatican, and the residence director wanted to give this person a small statue — of a meager value compared to the others in the Vatican Museums — as a gesture of gratitude. 

The German benefactor had a lot of problems with the Italian state, as he was accused of taking goods that Italy was charged with safeguarding. ”In every country there are a lot of measures for the defense of works of art, because the state has a duty to maintain them,” Cardinal Cordes added, noting that the Holy See treasures are also part of Italian cultural history.

The Cor Unum president underlined the work of the Catholic Church in health services and education in various regions in Africa. ”When they come to meet the Pope, the African presidents recognize this,” he said.

Without the Church, he affirmed, a huge part of those afflicted with AIDS would be abandoned, because the Church, with its network of hospitals, is the organization that cares for the largest number of people affected by the virus.

[SumProVita]

Should never have that much anyways...

___________________________

Are you a socialist....or have you further developed your thoughts regarding possession of goods into full communist thought?

[SumProVita]

“The Church, instituted by the Lord and confirmed by the Apostles, is one for all men; but the frantic folly of the diverse impious acts sects has cut them off from her. It cannot be denied that this tearing asunder of the faith has arisen from the defect of poor intelligence,which twists what is read to conform to its opinion, instead of adjusting its opinion to the meaning of what is read. However, while individual parties fight among themselves, the Church stands revealed not only by her own doctrines, but by those also of her adversaries. And although they are all arranged against her, she confutes the most wicked error which they all share, by the very fact that she is alone and One.

All the heretics, therefore, come against the Church; but while all the heretics can conquer each other, they can win nothing for themselves. For their victory is the triumph of the Church over all of them. One heresy struggles against that teaching of another, which the faith of the Church has already condemned in the other heresy, - for there is nothing which the heretics hold in common, ‘ and the result is that they affirm our faith while fighting among themselves.”

Saint Hilary of Poitiers... The Trinity, 7:4, 356 A.D.. Jurgens 865

[SumProVita]

So you are rejecting what God says why???

_____________________________

No, the Catholic Church does NOT reject what God has to say.

What does Holy Scripture have to say regarding the fact that GOD wants, and deserves, the very best? The Lord said to Moses, “Speak to the people of Israel, that they take for me an offering; from every man whose heart makes him willing you shall receive the offering for me. And this is the offering which you shall receive from them: gold, silver, and bronze, blue and purple and scarlet stuff and fine twined linen, goats’ hair, tanned rams’ skins, goatskins, acacia wood, oil for the lamps, spices for the anointing oil and for the fragrant incense, onyx stones, and stones for setting, for the ephod and for the breastpiece.

And let them make me a sanctuary, that I may dwell in their midst. According to all that I show you concerning the pattern of the tabernacle, and of all its furniture, so you shall make it.
They shall make an ark of acacia wood; two cubits and a half shall be its length, a cubit and a half its breadth, and a cubit and a half its height. And you shall overlay it with pure gold, within and without shall you overlay it, and you shall make upon it a molding of gold round about. And you shall cast four rings of gold for it and put them on its four feet, two rings on the one side of it, and two rings on the other side of it. You shall make poles of acacia wood, and overlay them with gold. And you shall put the poles into the rings on the sides of the ark, to carry the ark by them. The poles shall remain in the rings of the ark; they shall not be taken from it. And you shall put into the ark the testimony which I shall give you.

Then you shall make a mercy seat of pure gold; two cubits and a half shall be its length, and a cubit and a half its breadth. And you shall make two cherubim of gold; of hammered work shall you make them, on the two ends of the mercy seat. Make one cherub on the one end, and one cherub on the other end; of one piece with the mercy seat shall you make the cherubim on its two ends. The cherubim shall spread out their wings above, overshadowing the mercy seat with their wings, their faces one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubim be. And you shall put the mercy seat on the top of the ark; and in the ark you shall put the testimony that I shall give you. There I will meet with you, and from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubim that are upon the ark of the testimony, I will speak with you of all that I will give you in commandment for the people of Israel.

“And you shall make a table of acacia wood; two cubits shall be its length, a cubit its breadth, and a cubit and a half its height. You shall overlay it with pure gold, and make a molding of gold around it. And you shall make around it a frame a handbreadth wide, and a molding of gold around the frame. And you shall make for it four rings of gold, and fasten the rings to the four corners at its four legs. Close to the frame the rings shall lie, as holders for the poles to carry the table. You shall make the poles of acacia wood, and overlay them with gold, and the table shall be carried with these. And you shall make its plates and dishes for incense, and its flagons and bowls with which to pour libations; of pure gold you shall make them. And you shall set the bread of the Presence on the table before me always.

And you shall make a lampstand of pure gold. The base and the shaft of the lampstand shall be made of hammered work; its cups, its capitals, and its flowers shall be of one piece with it; and there shall be six branches going out of its sides, three branches of the lampstand out of one side of it and three branches of the lampstand out of the other side of it; three cups made like almonds, each with capital and flower, on one branch, and three cups made like almonds, each with capital and flower, on the other branch—so for the six branches going out of the lampstand; and on the lampstand itself four cups made like almonds, with their capitals and flowers, and a capital of one piece with it under each pair of the six branches going out from the lampstand. Their capitals and their branches shall be of one piece with it, the whole of it one piece of hammered work of pure gold. And you shall make the seven lamps for it; and the lamps shall be set up so as to give light upon the space in front of it. Its snuffers and their trays shall be of pure gold. Of a talent of pure gold shall it be made, with all these utensils. And see that you make them after the pattern for them, which is being shown you on the mountain.”
Exodus 25:1-40

Here GOD gave specific instructions to Moses as to how His sanctuary was to be constructed.
How many times can you count that the word gold was used in this chapter?
Would you dare to accuse GOD having so much that HE does not help others?
Please read Exodus chapters 26-30, for much more of the lavish details that GOD gave to Moses.

Isn’t GOD the same yesterday, today and forever? Do you think He prefers the stark meeting hall looks of non-Catholic sects today instead of the great beauty of His house as instructed to Moses?

There can be nothing less than the very best for GOD.
I haven’t even mentioned the fact that most of the wealth of the Vatican is due to the great GIFTS given by artists and craftsmen and small groups of *little* people who hired others...all to promote the GLORY of GOD!

[piusv]

He explained, “I had looked into [the status of the Vatican’s holdings] and found out that the Church cannot do what it wants with the works of art that are in the Vatican.” In reality, he said, the Church “has the duty to conserve the works of art in the name of the Italian state.” He affirmed, “It cannot sell them.”

Does this mean that the Church, under JPII, was considering getting rid of the works of art? But did not due to state law?

[daniel1212]

. Actually, if you added up all wealth and property of the Protestant churches and organizations it would FAR exceed that of the Vatican or all the individual dioceses around the world! Since it is often Protestants who make this challenge, do they ever suggest Protestants should sell all their land, buildings, pastors’ fancy cars and the mega-church $ millions?

A faulty comparison, as you are comparing one church with a multitude under a definition that typically seems sdo broad definition of Protestant that is so wide you can drive a Unitarian Scientology Swedenborgian Unification 747 thru it.

But speaking of planes, the valid question is, can a Protestant assert that Rome should sell her treasures and give them to the poor when his own pastors live in extravagance, with their own royal clothing and palaces, not a sacrificial life.

In addition

How rich is the Vatican? So wealthy it can stumble across ...

Inside the Vatican: The $8 billion global institution where ...

Roman Catholics: The Vatican's Wealth - TIME

The Vatican Bank: The Most Secret Bank In the World - Forbes

[ealgeone]

Sell everything, spend everything, and then it's gone. Can't help another person after that, can they? It's called responsible stewardship.

Turn the items into liquid investments where the interest can be used for the feeding of the poor, etc. You maintain principle to allow interest to grow.

With paintings, statues, etc, not much interest is realized.

[Iscool]

No, the Catholic Church does NOT reject what God has to say.

What does Holy Scripture have to say regarding the fact that GOD wants, and deserves, the very best? The Lord said to Moses, “Speak to the people of Israel, that they take for me an offering; from every man whose heart makes him willing you shall receive the offering for me. And this is the offering which you shall receive from them: gold, silver, and bronze, blue and purple and scarlet stuff and fine twined linen, goats’ hair, tanned rams’ skins, goatskins, acacia wood, oil for the lamps, spices for the anointing oil and for the fragrant incense, onyx stones, and stones for setting, for the ephod and for the breastpiece.

Yep, the O.T. tabernacle...

Do you have any idea why there was an O.T. tabernacle??? Do you have any idea what the New Testament Tabernacle is and how it compares to the O.T. tabernacle???

There hasn't been a 'tabernacle' since 70 AD...

Act_15:16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:

And that won't happen until Jesus Christ returns the 2nd time...

Heb 9:1 Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.
Heb 9:2 For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary.
Heb 9:3 And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all;
Heb 9:4 Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant;
Heb 9:5 And over it the cherubims of glory shadowing the mercyseat; of which we cannot now speak particularly.
Heb 9:6 Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God.
Heb 9:7 But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people:
Heb 9:8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:
Heb 9:9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
Heb 9:10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.
Heb 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

Do you know what that means??? It means exactly what it says...

There is no physical New Testament tabernacle...No Catholic church is a tabernacle...There is no Catholic building that is to be adorned with gold and precious jewels...

It's all a scam...It's all ungodly...

No, the Catholic Church does NOT reject what God has to say.

Your religion constantly rejects what God has to say as again proven by the scripture posted...So now what???

[SumProVita]

No Catholic church is a tabernacle.

_______________________________

Actually, every Catholic Church has a tabernacle and Jesus Christ Himself is found within it.

By the way, going back to the topic at hand:

“Mary took a pound of costly ointment of pure nard and anointed the feet of Jesus and wiped his feet with her hair; and the house was filled with the fragrance of the ointment. But Judas Iscariot, one of his disciples (he who was to betray him), said, “Why was this ointment not sold for three hundred denarii and given to the poor?” This he said, not that he cared for the poor but because he was a thief, and as he had the money box he used to take what was put into it. Jesus said, “Let her alone, let her keep it for the day of my burial.” John 12:3-7

There can be nothing less than the very best for GOD.

Let’s stick to the topic of this thread. ;-)

[SumProVita]

No Catholic church is a tabernacle.

_______________________________

Actually, every Catholic Church has a tabernacle and Jesus Christ Himself is found within it.

By the way, going back to the topic at hand:

“Mary took a pound of costly ointment of pure nard and anointed the feet of Jesus and wiped his feet with her hair; and the house was filled with the fragrance of the ointment. But Judas Iscariot, one of his disciples (he who was to betray him), said, “Why was this ointment not sold for three hundred denarii and given to the poor?” This he said, not that he cared for the poor but because he was a thief, and as he had the money box he used to take what was put into it. Jesus said, “Let her alone, let her keep it for the day of my burial.” John 12:3-7

There can be nothing less than the very best for GOD.

Let’s stick to the topic of this thread. ;-)

[delchiante]

Come forth, my people, out of her , that you have no fellowship with her sins , and you receive her plagues . Rev 18:4

I don’t accept the premise the Vatican represents the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and His Son.

That came with testing and proving all things.
Including what Mary had to say in her promises for praying the rosary testing with scripture.

Christianity doesn’t accept my premise that the Vatican has counterfeited the Way, Truth, Life.

We will find out someday.

Counterfeits arent easily detected without study of the genuine.
I used to accept the first premise. Now, I can say humbly I was deceived and accepted lies as truth.
And He can lead anyone to genuine truth if they ask, seek and knock.

But today is His 5th day to me. I would be considered odd to any religion or to the powers and principalities that run the world systems.

I am okay with being on the opposite side. Things I didn’t understand just three short years ago make complete sense today.
Like scales have come off..

All for His glory!

[SumProVita]

We will find out someday.

___________________________

Yes, we will ...and we will be accountable for every grace that He has given us.

May the Triune God grant you the richest of His graces.

[Iscool]

Actually, every Catholic Church has a tabernacle and Jesus Christ Himself is found within it.

Absolute hogwash...Jesus hasn't been in a tabernacle since 70 AD...He tells you that...Jesus IS the tabernacle...

There can be nothing less than the very best for GOD.

More hogwash...Jesus tells you to store up spiritual possessions, NOT physical possessions...Jesus seeks NOTHING physical...All that earthly treasure your religion stores up is nothing but paganism...

[SumProVita]

I was referring to the Eucharist.(I will not discuss the Eucharist with you as it is not the topic....and I am pretty sure that you do not believe as I do regarding that amazing gift.)

The topic is the subject of the treasures in the Vatican and whether or not they should be sold. If you are finished with this topic...so be it.

[SumProVita]

There can be nothing less than the very best for GOD.

More hogwash

_________________________________

What a sad remark! People used the very gifts and talents God gave them to glorify HIM...and you, quite uncharitably, criticize what they have done and those through the ages have done to preserve and respect them....their motive always being to glorify God!

Many of the greatest artisans that the world has ever seen, dedicated their talents and years of their lives to doing GOD’s work for the Church which Jesus Christ founded. We see that the great art, in all forms and shapes, not only comes to decorate our Churches and the Vatican, but it is a recognition of the artistic talents that God has given to a selected few. The art represents what the soul wants to manifest. Writers write. Photographers take pictures. Painters, sculptors, and architects do their own to manifest their faith. This art within the Catholic Faith has been an inspiration for many to seek the Lord. The Church has a responsibility to recognize the hands of the Lord in these great talents, and to preserve their testimonies of faith. They represent the real “splendor”, the one that comes from the souls of the faithful. Every artist offers to God the best they have. When the Lord asked Moses to build the Tabernacle, He asked for the best, and He got it.

The Lord said to Moses, “See, I have called by name Bezalel the son of Uri, son of Hur, of the tribe of Judah: and I have filled him with the Spirit of God, with ability and intelligence, with knowledge and all craftsmanship, to devise artistic designs, to work in gold, silver, and bronze, in cutting stones for setting, and in carving wood, for work in every craft. And behold, I have appointed with him Oholiab, the son of Ahisamach, of the tribe of Dan; and I have given to all able men ability, that they may make all that I have commanded you: the tent of meeting, and the ark of the testimony, and the mercy seat that is thereon, and all the furnishings of the tent, the table and its utensils, and the pure lampstand with all its utensils, and the altar of incense, and the altar of burnt offering with all its utensils, and the laver and its base, and the finely worked garments, the holy garments for Aaron the priest and the garments of his sons, for their service as priests, and the anointing oil and the fragrant incense for the holy place. According to all that I have commanded you they shall do.” Exodus 31:1-11

See, it is GOD who chooses the artisans for His tabernacle and its contents, and he endowed them with the talents needed to produce to the very best of their abilities.
Isn’t GOD the same yesterday, today and forever? Do you think He prefers the stark meeting hall looks of non-Catholic sects, instead of the great beauty of His house today in His Catholic Church?

There can be nothing less than the very best for GOD.

[SumProVita]

All that earthly treasure your religion stores up is nothing but paganism...

___________________________

How can they be pagan if they glorify the Triune God, if they glorify the Passion of Christ as our Salvation, if they glorify the coming of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost, if they glorify the works of God through His Apostles, etc....etc?

Do you not think the Church (irregardless of Italian law that basically mandates this) should maintain and share all of this with the world so as to give glory to God?

[smvoice]

"For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground; he hath no form nor comeliness and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him."(Isa.53:1).

THIS is how God chose to present Jesus to man. Something tells me if He were to come into the RCC today, He would be ignored or mocked. He's just not as "pretty" as the RCC would like Him to be...

[SumProVita]

People are people and we are all sinners. No matter what denominational gathering HE (in the flesh) might walk into today, there would be those who would SEE Him and adore, those who would be disinterested, and those who would hate Him.

HE is the same today, yesterday and tomorrow.

[caww]

Just removing the jewels and gold from the thousands of corpses they have stashed could probably feed an entire 3rd world nation for ages! That would be a great place to start...

[caww]

....."Do you think He prefers the stark meeting hall looks of non-Catholic sects, instead of the great beauty of His house today in His Catholic Church?....There can be nothing less than the very best for GOD"......

[SumProVita]

Please demonstrate that your image is a correct reflection based on substantive proof. Otherwise, it remains nothing more than ignorant ad hominem.