The Reformation is over. Catholics 0, Protestants 1

triablogue ^ | April 13, 2015 | Jerry Walls

[RnMomof7]

I'm going to transcribe an article that Jerry Walls wrote when he was a grad student at Notre Dame:

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I am nearing the end of three very happy (with a brief interlude) years as a graduate student in the philosophy department at Notre Dame. The philosophy department is quite lively and stimulating and I have learned a great deal about my discipline.

Along the way, I have also acquired an education of another sort–namely in the ways of the Roman Catholic Church. My education in this regard has been informal and piecemeal, to be sure. My insights have been gathered from diverse sources: from lectures, from letters to the Observer, from articles in the conservative magazine Fidelity, from interaction with undergraduates I have taught. But most of all, I have learned from numerous conversations with students and faculty in the philosophy and theology departments, many of which have involved a friend who is a former Roman Catholic seminarian. While my informal education in these matters hardly qualifies me to speak as an authority, Roman Catholics may find interesting how one Protestant in their midst has come to perceive them. I can communicate my perceptions most clearly, I think, by briefly describing three types of Catholics I have encountered. 

First, I have met a fair number of conservative Catholics. Those who belong to this group like to characterize themselves as thoroughly Catholic. They stress the teaching authority of the Church and are quick to defend the official Catholic position on all points. For such persons, papal encyclicals are not to be debated; they are to be accepted and obeyed. Many conservative Catholics, I suspect, hold their views out of a sense of loyalty to their upbringing. Others, however, defend their views with learning, intelligence, and at times, intensity.

At the other end of the spectrum of course, are the liberal Catholics. These persons are openly skeptical not only about distinctively Roman doctrines such as papal infallibility, but also about basic Christian doctrine as embodied in the ecumenical creeds. It is not clear in what sense such persons would even be called Christians. Nevertheless, if asked their religious preference, on a college application say, they would identify themselves as Catholics. I have no idea how many Catholics are liberals of this stripe, but I have met only a few here at Notre Dame.

It is the third type of Catholic, I am inclined to think, which represents the majority. Certainly most of the Catholics I have met are of this type. I call this group "functional protestants."

Many Catholics, no doubt, will find this designation offensive, so let me hasten to explain what I mean by it. One of the fundamental lines of difference between Catholics and Protestants, going back to the Reformation, concerns the issue of doctrinal authority. The traditional Roman Catholic view, as I understand it, is that its official teachings are guaranteed to be infallible, particularly when the pope or an ecumenical council exercises "extraordinary magisterium" when making doctrinal or moral pronouncements. Protestants have traditionally rejected this claim in favor of the view that Scripture alone is infallible in matters doctrinal and moral. This was the conviction MartinLuther came to hold after he arrived at the conclusion that both popes and church councils have erred. After this, his excommunication was all but inevitable.

When I say most Catholics are functional Protestants I simply mean that most Catholics do not accept the authority claims of their Church. In actual belief and practice, they are much closer to the Protestant view.

This is apparent from the fact that many Catholics do not accept explicitly defined dogmas of their Church. For example, I have talked with several Catholics who are doubtful, at best, about the Marian dogmas, even though these have the status of infallible doctrine in their church. Such Catholics have often made it clear to me that they believe the basic Christian doctrine as defined in the creeds. But they frankly admit that they think their Church has taken some wrong turns in her recent history. Where this is the case, they do not feel compelled to follow. As one of my functional Protestant friends put it: "I am a Roman Catholic, but I am more concerned about being Catholic than about being Roman."

That many Catholics are functionally Protestant is also evident in their attitude toward the distinctive moral teachings of their Church. The obvious example here is the Roman Catholic teaching that all forms of "artificial" birth control are immoral. The official view was reaffirmed explicitly by Pope Paul VI in his encyclical Humanae Vitae, and has been reiterated again and again by Pope John Paul II. Nevertheless, as the article on Humanae Vitae in the Encyclopedic Dictionary of Religion noted, "the papal ban is simply being ignored," and "a concrete authority crisis has thus emerged."

I attended the recent debate on abortion between Fr. James Burtchaell and Daniel Maguire. It is interesting to me that Fr. Burtchaell who eloquently defended the conservative view on abortion, admitted to a questioner that he rejects his Church's teaching on birth control. I could not help but wonder: is Fr. Burtchaell, Catholic statesman though he is, also among the functional Protestants?

This raises, of course, the deeper issue here: to what extent can a member of the Roman Catholic Church disagree with the official teachings of his Church and still be a faithful Catholic? Can one reject the teaching of a papal encyclical while remaining a faithful Catholic? If so, can he also reject a doctrine which the pope has declared infallible?

I have put these questions to several Catholics. Conservative have assured me that the answer to both the latter questions is no. Others insist the answer is yes.

This brings me to a final point concerning functional Protestants: they do consider themselves faithful Catholics. I have  often pointed out in conversation with such Catholics that their views differ little from mine. Why then remain Catholic I ask. In response, these Catholics make it clear to me that they love their Church and intend to remain loyal to it. More than one has compared the Church to his family. One's family makes mistakes, but one does not therefore choose to join another family.

I am not sure what to make of this response. It is not clear to me that one can line up behind Luther in holding that the Popes and councils have erred in their doctrinal and moral pronouncements, and still be a faithful Catholic.  But on the other hand, things have changed since the 16C. It is no longer the case that a Catholic will be excommunicated for holding what Luther held. Perhaps this is just another sign that the Reformation is–despite the pope's best efforts–finally taking hold within the Roman Church. 

Jerry Walls, "Reformational Theology found in Catholicism," The Observer, Thursday, April 23, 1978, p8.

[RnMomof7]

Why do you say things like this, which are not true and which you couldn't possibly know?

Because Catholics never know if they have been "good enough", kept the law well enough, done enough penance , or enough good works to be saved.. that is not living with hope ..that is living in uncertainty and fear

[Tao Yin]

If [Luther] does not reflect what you believe then why don’t you reject him?

Lutherans do not follow all of Luther’s writings, nor do we consider him a prophet. His writings in the Book of Concord are part of our confessional statement. His other writings are worthy of study, but they are not infallible.

In the United States, the WELS, the ELCA, and the LCMS have all denounced his anti-Jewish writings. So yes, we do reject Luther when he is clearly in the wrong.

[Salvation]

Nothing is wrong with Catholics.

Genesis 1

English Standard Version (ESV)

²⁶ Then God said, “Let us make man^[h] in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”

²⁷ So God created man in his own image,
    in the image of God he created him;
    male and female he created them.

²⁸ And God blessed them. And God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it, and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth.” ²⁹ And God said, “Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the face of all the earth, and every tree with seed in its fruit. You shall have them for food. ³⁰ And to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the heavens and to everything that creeps on the earth, everything that has the breath of life, I have given every green plant for food.” And it was so. ³¹ And God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day.

[CynicalBear]

Sheene obviously didn’t account for those who read what the Catholic Church teaches and are appalled by it. The more I learn about he Catholic Church and what it teaches the more convinced I am that it’s not only wrong but appallingly wrong.

[mlizzy]

Thanks for the prayers—but don’t pray for me to give up my Roman Catholic faith, the beauty of its liturgy and its traditions, the priestly tradition, the beauty of Mary and her answer; the papacy. Pray for my arthritic hip; pray that my lung cancer does not return; pray for my son to find a job; pray for the millions of aborted babies. If I am in such a state of sin and apostasy, why should God answer my prayers and the prayers of any Catholic? Jesus died on that cross for me, and you, and all. It’s time for these condemnations to stop.

Yes! We are in your corner!

[Resettozero]

All your condemnations mean nothing to anyone.

Warranted a wild swing of a reply from you.

[xone]

I didn't say 'same god'. I posted your Catechism.

Change "Muslims" to "Jews" in the preceding sentence, and I'll bet you pick option "c".

You'd be wrong. Muslims never followed the OT. Jesus came to the Jews, Is 53:3. He was rejected. Ishmael wasn't the son of the covenant Isaac was.

Jesus Christ is the only way to the Father, no one goes to the Father except through Him.

As for the Jews, Matt 10:33.

[LurkingSince'98]

So knowing their can only be One Tuth, why do you have so many versions of it.

Which version is the One Truth??

AMDG

[Salvation]

Amen. Praying for you.

[Resettozero]

Why are Catholics so obsessed with Luther?

It's part of what little some RCs know about their religion. There are those knowledgeable Catholics on this thread who surely know that RC millions are being held in a lifelong Prison of Dumb, Deaf, and Blind only because the RCs love the Prison and won't leave.

[Resettozero]

Gotta agree with you on that.

Whether you do or not, it's true.

[HossB86]

That one didn’t make much sense to me. Poster might not be feeling well or something. Not sure.

:D

Hoss

[onyx]

Amen, englishprof302.

Praying for you.

[LurkingSince'98]

The more I learn about he Catholic Church and what it teaches the more convinced I am that it’s not only wrong but appallingly wrong.

I didn’t realize that your understanding of Catholicism was divinely inspired by the Holy Spirit for you to know with a certainty that Catholicism is “appalling wrong”

Kind of like your inerrant knowledge of Gutenberg’s bible.

AMDG

[HossB86]

Nothing is wrong with Catholics.

The scripture you posted isn't about Catholics; it's about humans. God created mankind, not Catholickind.

Choosing to be Catholic is just a bad choice; people aren't made that way.

Hoss

[xone]

The Book of Concord is the statement of Lutheranism (named by Catholics) and it contains no anti-Jewish doctrine. Catholicism’s history is replete with actions of anti-semitism. Led by Popes, some of them saints.

[Mrs. Don-o]

You don't know that about Catholics.

Our hope is in the Lord, Who made heaven and earth.

Our hope is in Christ.

Anyone who is in Christ has the seeds of these perfect virtues: Faith, Hope, Love.

[miss marmelstein]

Cue the Twilight Zone!

[miss marmelstein]

Saying a prayer for you and your family.

English profs are my favorite type of person.

[Mrs. Don-o]

That doesn't solve things. This pastor

evident has a local ekklesia. a church he has been meeting with. He's the pastor of it! "Presbyterian, father of four, abortion enthusiast"

They haven't booted him out. What makes you think he will get correction from them?

What if the local group he has been meeting with, consists of him, his wife, and his teenage son?

And what if the local group I have been meeting with, consists of me, my identical twin, and my BFF?

What if his local group disagrees with my local group?

Hatfields and McCoys?

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