Posted on 04/22/2015 11:50:07 AM PDT by NYer
Question: I had a former theology teacher at my parish’s school tell me that Vatican II changed the Church’s teachings on Adam and Eve and that the first few chapters of Genesis are to be considered as myths. Is that true?
Answer: No, it is not. Below are nine teachings of the Church regarding the first three chapters of Genesis. These teachings can be found in a document which was issued by the Pontifical Biblical Commission, and confirmed by Pope St. Pius X in 1909. These teachings have been the constant teachings of the Church throughout the centuries, and the Pontifical Biblical Commission expounded them in 1909 as a response to the errors of the Modernists that had developed in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. The Modernists were, among other things, denying the reality of Adam and Eve.
Now, you might say, “John, this was before Vatican II, the question is: didn’t Vatican II change all of this?” No, it did not. We can find every single one of these nine teachings of Pope St. Pius X, as expounded by the 1909 Pontifical Biblical Commission, in the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) that was published in 1994.
So, here they are, the nine teachings of the Church regarding chapters 1-3 of Genesis, as expounded in the 1909 document from the Pontifical Biblical Commission, followed each time by the paragraphs of the 1994 Catechism that carry the corresponding teachings:
1. The creation of all things out of nothing by God at the beginning of time...and including time; CCC #’s 296-299
2. The special creation of man; CCC #’s 355-359
3. The creation of woman from man [Eve was created from Adam’s rib — well, the Church doesn’t say that it absolutely happened in exactly that way, but it does teach that woman was created from man in some manner]; CCC #371
4. That all of humanity is descended from an original pair of human beings — Adam and Eve; CCC #’s 54-55, 359-360, 375, 390-392, 402-405, 407, 416-417
5. That Adam and Eve were created in an original state of holiness, justice, and immortality; CCC #’s 374-379, 384, 398, 415-416
6. That a Divine Command was laid upon man to prove his obedience to God “Thou shalt not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil” - again, exactly what that means, we don’t know. Was it really a tree with fruit that they weren’t supposed to eat? Probably not, but we don’t really know. But we do know that there was some command from God, laid upon man, to prove his obedience.]; CCC #’s 396-397, 399
7. The transgression of that Divine Command at the instigation of Satan; CCC #’s 379, 390-392, 394-395, 397-398, 413-415
8. The loss of the state of holiness, justice, and immortality of our 1st parents, because of their disobedience — Adam and Eve were kicked out of Paradise; CCC #’s 379, 390, 399-400, 410
9. The promise of a future Redeemer, a Savior — Gen 3:15, the protoevangelium, the first “good news”; CCC #’s 410-411
I doubt anyone will contend that the Catechism is pre-Vatican II. So, if the teachings of the 1909 Pontifical Biblical Commission on Adam and Eve are also found in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, then it is obvious that Vatican II did not change the Church’s teachings in regard to Adam and Eve.
If you feel that way, then take it out on me, not on the mother of Jesus.
“If you feel that way, then take it out on me, not on the mother of Jesus.”
A Catholic sentiment.
Pius' quote deals only with a theoretical "adam," not the Biblical Adam, who was a very specific individual ...Please consider the bolded part of my previous post:
a sin actually committed by an individual Adam ...Pius Xii was not referring to a theoretical Adam. Pius XII was saying that the Adam of Genesis was a real individual who actually committed a real sin. Pius XII is completely unambiguous regarding the reality of the Biblical Adam.
Regarding Catholic commentaries that say that Adam was a mythical man, I'm going to echo piusv's call for a cite or link. Tx.
Most definitely!
I want infallible teachings. Anyone can have a fallible opinion
Ans what “evil” would that be that Saint Pope Pius V participated in? He is one of the Catholic Church’s greatest popes and saints.
Exactly why self-interpretation leads to chaos.
If you really want to torque somebody off, call them, “vinegar son of wine!” and see how that goes over. The mods will probably let it slide.
[It must not] be thought that what is expounded in Encyclical Letters does not of itself demand consent, since in writing such Letters the Popes do not exercise the supreme power of their Teaching Authority. For these matters are taught with the ordinary teaching authority [The Ordinary Magisterium], of which it is true to say: ‘He who hears you, hears me’; [Luke 10:16] and generally what is expounded and inculcated in Encyclical Letters already for other reasons appertains to Catholic doctrine. But if the Supreme Pontiffs in their official documents purposely pass judgment on a matter up to that time under dispute, it is obvious that that matter, according to the mind and will of the Pontiffs, cannot be any longer considered a question open to discussion…
Yes, I find it odd when a protestant asks for infallible Catholic teachings.
I want infallible teachings.And that's exactly what I gave you. The infallible expression of the ordinary universal magisterium.
You're welcome : )
We’ve been down this road before. I still don’t believe this is about hatred for a certain group of people. I believe that what you are seeing is part of the modernization of the Church. If there is hate, it is the hatred of Modernists towards the Holy Catholic Faith. I think a big reason why you don’t see as much of a “traditionalist” focus on Adam and Eve is because any apparent change in teaching was not codified (ie. as with Vatican II). It’s also just not a topic that you see a lot of in forums.
But believe you me if a priest taught me the crap that someone stated upthread, I would most certainly be giving him a piece of my mind. The thing is I no longer have to worry about that because my priests are holy, traditionalist....CATHOLIC....priests. Not these Novus Ordo, modernist pseudo-priests.
Adam and Eve’s existence must be true and not myth, lest much of Paul’s teaching should fall apart....”since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead...As in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive!” If Adam and Eve were myth, then the reason for Christ having to die was also myth and a lie and Christianity falls apart under its own weight! If there be no resurrection of the dead, Paul said...then let us “eat drink and be merry for tomorrow we die!”
The bible doesn't require a Nihil Obstat nor an imprimatur and none of my Catholic Bibles teach that Adam and Eve are myths.....what are you talking about????
you keep stating that Catholics reject Genesis....none that I know of do....I’ve never heard of spokel ill of....I haave no idea where you get some of your misconceptions...
Excuse me?!? I've done no such thing.
Have you read the entire article, without the anti-Catholic spectacles? Have you followed the references to get the entire picture?
When you have, then get back to me. Though there may be differences between them, all the basic truths written are recognized by the Catholic Church. That isn't being questioned. The article was written by an apologist, to show that the Church's position did not change with Vatican II.
Even if it had, it does not give anyone the right to show total disrespect for the woman God chose to be the mother of Jesus: that's tantamount to saying that God made the wrong decision in choosing her, thus she is not worthy of respect. Read the article without bias, look up the references, and be accountable for posts. That is conducive to discussion, rather than the response being potentially inflammatory.
No you don't...you denied them when you had them and you certainly have fallible opinions....really fallible.
1566-1572
Pope St. Pius V expels Jews from the Papal States, allowing some to remain in Rome's ghettos and in Ancona for commercial reasons
Many Catholics on this forum decry anti-semitic writing, rightfully so BTW, but ignore the same when it is 'action' by Catholic hierarchy.
One thing about the study of history, if no other: You cannot judge past events by modern standards. Judging historical individuals by modern religious, ethical or legal standards leads to revisionism. A sin that is even greater than plagerism in academic circles. Pius V was a strong bulwark of the Catholic Faith who led a saintly life founded on heroic Christian morality.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Pius_V
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