Wouldn't matter if they were homogenized or canonized....they remain dead corpses no matter how you dress them up or don't dress them.
Posted on 04/17/2015 12:12:16 PM PDT by RnMomof7
Dick Vomer:
The article is by a former Catholic who is by all accounts, based on my researching his blog, a salesman [maybe used car salesman???]. Regardless, he is just a self-anointed Protestant Pope with an internet blog. Again, unless someone can provide evidence to me, I don’t think he is a theologian by training or Protestant Pastor or Reverend via formal seminary training. Again, from best I can tell, he states his professional job is in some sort of sales.
Aquinas:
You beat me too it. I was going to link the Martyrdom of Saint Polycarp, Bishop, and disciple of the Apostle Saint John. This is as close to Apostolic times as you can get, as Saint John the Apostle would have been alive within recent memory of many of Saint [Bishop] Polycarp’s parishoners
Alex, I pinged you here as earlier you had a quote regarding relics, and an article questioning whether the relics discussed in the article were actually canonized saints. If the relics were martyr’s during Roman persecutions in the period prior to Theodosius making Catholicism-Christianity the state religion in circa 380, then by definition, they would be recognized as saints without the strict formal canonization process that we think of today.
http://newadvent.org/fathers/0102.htm
caww:
There body is still there. The soul is not there. But, at the end of time, all the early Creeds affirm the orthodox doctrine of the “resurrection of the body/dead”, which of course goes right against one of the dominate early heresies, Gnosticism.
So honoring the dead is not a heresy, in fact, it actually affirms the reality of the Incarnation of Christ that his death and resurrection overcame sin and death and those who die in communion with Christ will share in his resurrection, entirely, the whole person [Soul and Body]. What that body will look like in heaven, nobody knows, but as the Apostle John says, we will look like him [1 John 3:2] Numerous other passages affirm a resurrection of the body [2 Peter 1:4. Phillipians 3:20-21; 2 Cor 3:18].
Wouldn't matter if they were homogenized or canonized....they remain dead corpses no matter how you dress them up or don't dress them.
caww:
Well they are dead, but they are dead saints. So Polycarp’s Martyred bones were visible reminders of someone who persevered even in the face of death.
So we agree, they are dead from our human perspective, but in reality, they are more alive than us. That is where we part. Catholics see those martyred as completely part of the Communion of Saints [affirmed in Apostles Creed]. You and your tradition does not. Fair enough.
**several Protestant countries became communist...East Germany and Czechoslovakia come to mind.**
IIRC Germany and Czechoslovakia “became” Communist when they were taken over a larger nation, one that was Orthodox before it became atheistic and Communist. Remember the USSR?
We are not our bodies...our soul and spirit are simply housed in the flesh while we are here.
“We have this treasure in earthen vessels” (2 Corinthians 4:7)
If they are Christians they are with Him. Their corpse remains here...it’s “earthly”... Dust to dust sort of thing because it is dead.
That would be way to simple for the Catholic mindset.
caw:
Here is a nice summary of Relics, as even the Protestant Church Historian notes, no Church Doctor or Father ever rejected it and there are some passages in the scriptures that relics of some sort were associated with Miracles indicating that God does work through matter to bring about spiritual things. This of course is not surprising to any Catholic or Orthodox Christian worth his or her salt, for this follows logically from the reality of the Incarnation of Christ.
So I will take Saint Polycarp, Jerome, Augustine, etc as evidence supporting my view, you can take all the Free Republic Protestant self anointed prophets and theologians and other internet self anointed theologians to support your view. Again, fair enough.
http://www.religionfacts.com/christianity/things/relics.htm
caw:
I am going to ask you a very specific question.
Do you believe in the Resurrection of the Body? Yes or No
Russia became communist because of incompetent leadership on the part of the Czar and the Duma (something that still goes on today), the unbelievable poverty and the true exploitation of the masses. That the communists exploited them as well as practicing genocide is another matter.
1 Corinthians 15:42 So also is the rising again of the dead: it is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption; 43 it is sown in dishonour, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body; there is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body;
Catholics choose to venerate the dishonoured body.
1) pray to mom and dad
2) expect them to be able to do anything for me
3) don't kneel before their graves
So in short, this Christian does not worship the departed ones who have gone on before us.
As Peter told Cornelius when Cornelius had fallen at his feet to worship him, "Stand up, for I too am just a man." (Acts 10:25-26 NASB)
Let’s stay on track.
The post I was responding to was about East Germany and Czechoslovakia, Protestant nations, going Commie.
They didn’t go Commie, now did they?
Can you clear up what you wrote? I don’t understand it. East Germany was certainly a communist country. I don’t think any religion had anything to do with countries being taken over by madmen and thugs. Our nation has always been a Protestant nation - and look what’s happening to it.
eh, sparklite, you kinda went quite there - no mindless retort at the ready?
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