Are Christians Under the 10 Commandments?

Desiring God ^ | August 7, 2010 | John Piper

[af_vet_1981]

So you’ve never broken the law, then, not even once?

Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do? Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.
John, Catholic chapter nineteen, Protestant verses twenty one to twenty two,
as authorized, but not authored, by King James

And complete your theology. How does Jesus humbling Himself to become a man and dying on the Cross fit in?

Listen, O isles, unto me; and hearken, ye people, from far; The LORD hath called me from the womb; from the bowels of my mother hath he made mention of my name. And he hath made my mouth like a sharp sword; in the shadow of his hand hath he hid me, and made me a polished shaft; in his quiver hath he hid me; And said unto me, Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified. Then I said, I have laboured in vain, I have spent my strength for nought, and in vain: yet surely my judgment is with the LORD, and my work with my God. And now, saith the LORD that formed me from the womb to be his servant, to bring Jacob again to him, Though Israel be not gathered, yet shall I be glorious in the eyes of the LORD, and my God shall be my strength. And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.
Isaiah, Catholic chapter forty nine, Protestant verses one to six,
as authorized, but not authored, by King James

Otherwise, to complete your theology, try reading the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

You also left out part of Jesus’ conversation with the ruler, and only discuss part of it. Have you given all your riches away yet to follow Jesus?

Is this like when a certain lawyer, who once Jesus gave him the answer could not help himself but another question ? And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live. But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour?
Luke, Catholic chapter ten, Protestant verses twenty five to twenty nine,
as authorized, but not authored, by King James

As for your point that I also left out part of Jesus’ conversation with the ruler, who also could not help himself but ask another question, do you mean that you don't believe what Jesus said as it stands ? In any event I commend you for remembering the very catholic second part of that rich young ruler's conversation with the Lord. And it goes on and on, with works, works, works, yet I must stop the copy somewhere. But since you asked the question, as did the young man, I will copy it again with that question and more: And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions. Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
Matthew, Catholic chapter nineteen, Protestant verses sixteen to twenty four,
as authorized, but not authored, by King James

[roamer_1]

What you have NOT done is show that it applies to GENTILES.

All the world will be judged according to Torah... And according to the prophets, the whole world will keep Torah.

Yeshua (your Master, the one you are disciple to) says to teach and do YHWH's law.
James says to keep YHWH's commandments.
John says to keep YHWH's commandments.
Peter says to keep YHWH's commandments
Paul says to keep YHWH's commandments.

Revelation says the dragon goes after those who keep the commandments of YHWH and have the testimony of Yeshua Messiah.

Sin is defined as transgression of Torah. How do you 'go and sin no more'?
Wickedness is the twisting of Torah. How do you avoid being wicked?
Iniquity is the act of lawlessness - being without Torah. How do you avoid iniquity?

Torah teaches the discernment of the common vs. the set-apart. How do you learn to keep and do what is sanctified?
Torah is perfect for converting the soul.

What will you do with Acts 15???

Your Master said to do and teach the law - That should be all you need to know.

A disciple cannot gainsay his master, and these men were the direct disciples of Yeshua, and they cannot gainsay the Master either.
So I would say that I think you are reading Acts 15 wrongly.

[Elsie]

James says to keep YHWH’s commandments.
John says to keep YHWH’s commandments.
Peter says to keep YHWH’s commandments
Paul says to keep YHWH’s commandments.

To WHOM are they speaking?
Show the verses if you want credit for the course.

[Elsie]

So I would say that I think you are reading Acts 15 wrongly.

Yeah...

Sure...

---

²³ With them they sent the following letter:

 

 

   The apostles and elders, your brothers,

   To the Gentile believers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia:

   Greetings.

 ²⁴ We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said. ²⁵ So we all agreed to choose some men and send them to you with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul— ²⁶ men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. ²⁷ Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to confirm by word of mouth what we are writing. ²⁸ It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: ²⁹ You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.

   Farewell.

 

 ³⁰ So the men were sent off and went down to Antioch, where they gathered the church together and delivered the letter. ³¹ The people read it and were glad for its encouraging message. ³²

[Elsie]

DANGER!!

Sola Scripta thingy alert!!!

...to confirm by word of mouth what we are writing.

[roamer_1]

To WHOM are they speaking?

YOU.

Show the verses if you want credit for the course.

I have showed it all before. Read the Book. And start from the front.

[roamer_1]

Act 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
Act 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

How are these gentiles going to be acceptable to those in the synagogue so that they can come and hear Moses preached?

[Faith Presses On]

*** So you’ve never broken the law, then, not even once?

“Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do? Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.” ***

That’s not an answer. If you won’t write in your own words an answer, including if you want to how this passage relates to perfectly keeping the law, then provide Catholic writing that does provide answers.

[af_vet_1981]

provide Catholic writing that does provide answers.

SECTION TWO

THE TEN COMMANDMENTS

"Teacher, what must I do . . .?"

2052 "Teacher, what good deed must I do, to have eternal life?" To the young man who asked this question, Jesus answers first by invoking the necessity to recognize God as the "One there is who is good," as the supreme Good and the source of all good. Then Jesus tells him: "If you would enter life, keep the commandments." And he cites for his questioner the precepts that concern love of neighbor: "You shall not kill, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, Honor your father and mother." Finally Jesus sums up these commandments positively: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."1

2053 To this first reply Jesus adds a second: "If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me."2 This reply does not do away with the first: following Jesus Christ involves keeping the Commandments. The Law has not been abolished,3 but rather man is invited to rediscover it in the person of his Master who is its perfect fulfillment. In the three synoptic Gospels, Jesus' call to the rich young man to follow him, in the obedience of a disciple and in the observance of the Commandments, is joined to the call to poverty and chastity.4 The evangelical counsels are inseparable from the Commandments.

2054 Jesus acknowledged the Ten Commandments, but he also showed the power of the Spirit at work in their letter. He preached a "righteousness [which] exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees"5 as well as that of the Gentiles.6 He unfolded all the demands of the Commandments. "You have heard that it was said to the men of old, 'You shall not kill.' . . . But I say to you that every one who is angry with his brother shall be liable to judgment."7

2055 When someone asks him, "Which commandment in the Law is the greatest?"8 Jesus replies: "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the greatest and first commandment. And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the prophets."9 The Decalogue must be interpreted in light of this twofold yet single commandment of love, the fullness of the Law:

The commandments: "You shall not commit adultery, You shall not kill, You shall not steal, You shall not covet," and any other commandment, are summed up in this sentence: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.10

The Decalogue in Sacred Scripture

2056 The word "Decalogue" means literally "ten words."11 God revealed these "ten words" to his people on the holy mountain. They were written "with the finger of God,"12 unlike the other commandments written by Moses.13 They are pre-eminently the words of God. They are handed on to us in the books of Exodus14 and Deuteronomy.15 Beginning with the Old Testament, the sacred books refer to the "ten words,"16 but it is in the New Covenant in Jesus Christ that their full meaning will be revealed.

2057 The Decalogue must first be understood in the context of the Exodus, God's great liberating event at the center of the Old Covenant. Whether formulated as negative commandments, prohibitions, or as positive precepts such as: "Honor your father and mother," the "ten words" point out the conditions of a life freed from the slavery of sin. The Decalogue is a path of life:

If you love the LORD your God, by walking in his ways, and by keeping his commandments and his statutes and his ordinances, then you shall live and multiply.17

This liberating power of the Decalogue appears, for example, in the commandment about the sabbath rest, directed also to foreigners and slaves:

You shall remember that you were a servant in the land of Egypt, and the LORD your God brought you out thence with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm.18

2058 The "ten words" sum up and proclaim God's law: "These words the Lord spoke to all your assembly at the mountain out of the midst of the fire, the cloud, and the thick darkness, with a loud voice; and he added no more. And he wrote them upon two tables of stone, and gave them to me."19 For this reason these two tables are called "the Testimony." In fact, they contain the terms of the covenant concluded between God and his people. These "tables of the Testimony" were to be deposited in "the ark."20

2059 The "ten words" are pronounced by God in the midst of a theophany ("The LORD spoke with you face to face at the mountain, out of the midst of the fire."21). They belong to God's revelation of himself and his glory. The gift of the Commandments is the gift of God himself and his holy will. In making his will known, God reveals himself to his people.

2060 The gift of the commandments and of the Law is part of the covenant God sealed with his own. In Exodus, the revelation of the "ten words" is granted between the proposal of the covenant22 and its conclusion - after the people had committed themselves to "do" all that the Lord had said, and to "obey" it.23 The Decalogue is never handed on without first recalling the covenant ("The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.").24

2061 The Commandments take on their full meaning within the covenant. According to Scripture, man's moral life has all its meaning in and through the covenant. The first of the "ten words" recalls that God loved his people first:

Since there was a passing from the paradise of freedom to the slavery of this world, in punishment for sin, the first phrase of the Decalogue, the first word of God's commandments, bears on freedom "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery."25

2062 The Commandments properly so-called come in the second place: they express the implications of belonging to God through the establishment of the covenant. Moral existence is a response to the Lord's loving initiative. It is the acknowledgement and homage given to God and a worship of thanksgiving. It is cooperation with the plan God pursues in history.

2063 The covenant and dialogue between God and man are also attested to by the fact that all the obligations are stated in the first person ("I am the Lord.") and addressed by God to another personal subject ("you"). In all God's commandments, the singular personal pronoun designates the recipient. God makes his will known to each person in particular, at the same time as he makes it known to the whole people:

The Lord prescribed love towards God and taught justice towards neighbor, so that man would be neither unjust, nor unworthy of God. Thus, through the Decalogue, God prepared man to become his friend and to live in harmony with his neighbor. . . . The words of the Decalogue remain likewise for us Christians. Far from being abolished, they have received amplification and development from the fact of the coming of the Lord in the flesh.26

The Decalogue in the Church's Tradition

2064 In fidelity to Scripture and in conformity with the example of Jesus, the tradition of the Church has acknowledged the primordial importance and significance of the Decalogue.

2065 Ever since St. Augustine, the Ten Commandments have occupied a predominant place in the catechesis of baptismal candidates and the faithful. In the fifteenth century, the custom arose of expressing the commandments of the Decalogue in rhymed formulae, easy to memorize and in positive form. They are still in use today. The catechisms of the Church have often expounded Christian morality by following the order of the Ten Commandments.

2066 The division and numbering of the Commandments have varied in the course of history. The present catechism follows the division of the Commandments established by St. Augustine, which has become traditional in the Catholic Church. It is also that of the Lutheran confessions. The Greek Fathers worked out a slightly different division, which is found in the Orthodox Churches and Reformed communities.

2067 The Ten Commandments state what is required in the love of God and love of neighbor. The first three concern love of God, and the other seven love of neighbor.

As charity comprises the two commandments to which the Lord related the whole Law and the prophets . . . so the Ten Commandments were themselves given on two tablets. Three were written on one tablet and seven on the other.27

2068 The Council of Trent teaches that the Ten Commandments are obligatory for Christians and that the justified man is still bound to keep them;28 the Second Vatican Council confirms: "The bishops, successors of the apostles, receive from the Lord . . . the mission of teaching all peoples, and of preaching the Gospel to every creature, so that all men may attain salvation through faith, Baptism and the observance of the Commandments."29

The unity of the Decalogue

2069 The Decalogue forms a coherent whole. Each "word" refers to each of the others and to all of them; they reciprocally condition one another. The two tables shed light on one another; they form an organic unity. To transgress one commandment is to infringe all the others.30 One cannot honor another person without blessing God his Creator. One cannot adore God without loving all men, his creatures. The Decalogue brings man's religious and social life into unity.

The Decalogue and the natural law

2070 The Ten Commandments belong to God's revelation. At the same time they teach us the true humanity of man. They bring to light the essential duties, and therefore, indirectly, the fundamental rights inherent in the nature of the human person. The Decalogue contains a privileged expression of the natural law:

From the beginning, God had implanted in the heart of man the precepts of the natural law. Then he was content to remind him of them. This was the Decalogue.31

2071 The commandments of the Decalogue, although accessible to reason alone, have been revealed. To attain a complete and certain understanding of the requirements of the natural law, sinful humanity needed this revelation:

A full explanation of the commandments of the Decalogue became necessary in the state of sin because the light of reason was obscured and the will had gone astray.32

We know God's commandments through the divine revelation proposed to us in the Church, and through the voice of moral conscience.

The obligation of the Decalogue

2072 Since they express man's fundamental duties towards God and towards his neighbor, the Ten Commandments reveal, in their primordial content, grave obligations. They are fundamentally immutable, and they oblige always and everywhere. No one can dispense from them. The Ten Commandments are engraved by God in the human heart.

2073 Obedience to the Commandments also implies obligations in matter which is, in itself, light. Thus abusive language is forbidden by the fifth commandment, but would be a grave offense only as a result of circumstances or the offender's intention.

"Apart from me you can do nothing"

2074 Jesus says: "I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in me, and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing."33 The fruit referred to in this saying is the holiness of a life made fruitful by union with Christ. When we believe in Jesus Christ, partake of his mysteries, and keep his commandments, the Savior himself comes to love, in us, his Father and his brethren, our Father and our brethren. His person becomes, through the Spirit, the living and interior rule of our activity. "This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you."34

IN BRIEF

2075 "What good deed must I do, to have eternal life?" - "If you would enter into life, keep the commandments" (Mt 19:16-17).

2076 By his life and by his preaching Jesus attested to the permanent validity of the Decalogue.

2077 The gift of the Decalogue is bestowed from within the covenant concluded by God with his people. God's commandments take on their true meaning in and through this covenant.

2078 In fidelity to Scripture and in conformity with Jesus' example, the tradition of the Church has always acknowledged the primordial importance and significance of the Decalogue.

2079 The Decalogue forms an organic unity in which each "word" or "commandment" refers to all the others taken together. To transgress one commandment is to infringe the whole Law (cf. Jas 2:10-11).

2080 The Decalogue contains a privileged expression of the natural law. It is made known to us by divine revelation and by human reason.

2081 The Ten Commandments, in their fundamental content, state grave obligations. However, obedience to these precepts also implies obligations in matter which is, in itself, light.

2082 What God commands he makes possible by his grace.

1 Mt 19:16-19.
2 Mt 19:21.
3 Cf. Mt 5:17.
4 Cf. Mt 19:6-12,21,23-29.
5 Mt 5:20.
6 Cf. Mt 5:46-47.
7 Mt 5:21-22.
8 Mt 22:36.
9 Mt 22:37-40; cf. Deut 6:5; Lev 19:18.
10 Rom 13:9-10.
11 Ex 34:28; Deut 4:13; 10:4.
12 Ex 31:18; Deut 5:22.
13 Cf. Deut 31:9-24.
14 Cf. 20:1-17. 
15 Cf. Deut 5:6-22.
16 Cf. for example Hos 4:2; Jer 7:9; Ezek 18:5-9.
17 Deut 30:16.
18 Deut 5:15.
19 Deut 5:22.
20 Ex 25:16; 31:18; 32:15; 34:29; 40:1-2.
21 Deut 5:4.
22 Cf. Ex 19.
23 Cf. Ex 24:7.
24 Deut 5:2.
25 Origen, Hom. in Ex. 8,1:PG 12,350; cf. Ex 20:2; Deut 5:6.
26 St. Irenaeus, Adv. haeres., 4,16, 3-4:PG 7/1,1017-1018.
27 St. Augustine, Sermo 33,2,2:PL 38,208.
28 Cf. DS 1569-1570.
29 LG 24.
30 Cf. Jas 2:10-11. 
31 St. Irenaeus, Adv. haeres. 4,15,1:PG 7/l,1012.
32 St. Bonaventure, Comm. sent. 4,37,1,3.
33 Jn 15:5.
34 Jn 15:12.

[Faith Presses On]

*** So you’ve never broken the law, then, not even once?
“Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do? Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.” ***
That’s not an answer. If you won’t write in your own words an answer, including if you want to how this passage relates to perfectly keeping the law, then provide Catholic writing that does provide answers.***

You didn’t answer on if you ever have broken the law.

You also didn’t answer on why you answered that question by quoting John 21:20-22 and explaining the connection between them that you claim is there. If there is one in Catholicism, then bring it forward.

With the way you respond, which is mostly not to the matter at hand, I was answering and still now am only answering on a point or two at time. However, I did indeed allow for you to produce Catholic writing not only on the two questions above that you still haven’t answered, but also on any other point. So you’ve quoted the Catholic catechism on the Ten Commandments. But it’s a passage on the Ten Commandments, not justification. I’ve read the Catholic Catechism on justification and just re-read. There is more grace in it than your responses here suggest.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s1c3a2.htm

Now, you have not addressed grace. Grace is in Jesus’ words, and throughout the Bible. Grace is the message of the Gospel. How do the Ten Commandments fit with it? And if you are keeping the Commandments, do you ever go to Confession then?

[editor-surveyor]

Is there a single person on Earth that is not bound by the entirety of God’s word?

The Grace misinterpreters will now make fools of them selves doing battle with their own iniquity.

Its Yeshua that you have to convince, not me!

Churn yourselves into butter.
.

[editor-surveyor]

.
>> “We now live under the new law as explained in the New Testament.” <<

.
1John 2:

[7] Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.

. .

[editor-surveyor]

Piper will not be among us when we rise on the day of Trunpets! (unless he repented of his total iniquity)

Matthew 7:

[21] Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
[22] Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
[23] And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

         (Iniquity is the state of being without Torah)

[editor-surveyor]

.
>> “You don’t go to hell because you break the 10 commandments, you go to hell for not being Born Again.” <<

.
You will not be born again at the day of Trumpets unless you have repented from your iniquity.

(Read John ch 3. Born Again, as Yeshua explained to Nicodemus, is receiving an incorruptible body at the Day of Trumpets, and nothing else)
.

[af_vet_1981]

You also didn’t answer on why you answered that question by quoting John 21:20-22 and explaining the connection between them that you claim is there.

You did not ask that question.

I’ve read the Catholic Catechism on justification and just re-read. There is more grace in it than your responses here suggest.

Good

How do the Ten Commandments fit with it?

2054 Jesus acknowledged the Ten Commandments, but he also showed the power of the Spirit at work in their letter. He preached a "righteousness [which] exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees"5 as well as that of the Gentiles.6 He unfolded all the demands of the Commandments. "You have heard that it was said to the men of old, 'You shall not kill.' . . . But I say to you that every one who is angry with his brother shall be liable to judgment."7

2055 When someone asks him, "Which commandment in the Law is the greatest?"8 Jesus replies: "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the greatest and first commandment. And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the prophets."9 The Decalogue must be interpreted in light of this twofold yet single commandment of love, the fullness of the Law:

And if you are keeping the Commandments, do you ever go to Confession then?

Yes

Full Question

Is a Catholic required to go to confession at least once a year if he has not committed a mortal sin?

Answer

No. Church law requires confession only of grave (mortal) sins at least once a year. If a person has committed no mortal sins, he is not obligated to go to confession. The Code of Canon Law states:

After having reached the age of discretion, each member of the faithful is obliged to confess faithfully his or her grave sins at least once a year. (CIC 989)

That said, "it is recommended to the Christian faithful that they also confess venial sins" (CIC 988).

Worded another way

How often do I need to confess?

The Church recommends that Catholics receive the Sacrament of Penance frequently. Strictly speaking, after they’ve reached the age of reason, Catholics are obliged to confess their serious sins at least once a year (CIC 989), but the minimum should not be made a maximum. Catholics should come to confession as soon as possible after they’ve committed a mortal sin. If they’re seeking to grow in holiness, the regular practice of confession at least once a month is commended.

[Elsie]

I have showed it all before. Read the Book. And start from the front.

Here's the haystack; go for it.

I'll accept the fact that you either cannot or WILL not show the applicable scripture.

[Elsie]

Act 15:20 But that we write unto them,

[Elsie]

How are these gentiles going to be acceptable to those in the synagogue so that they can come and hear Moses preached?

Why IS the sky blue?

[Elsie]

RED print is usually reserved for Jesus’ words...

[Elsie]

(Read John ch 3. Born Again, as Yeshua explained to Nicodemus, is receiving an incorruptible body at the Day of Trumpets, and nothing else)

All dressed up and no where to go?