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To: ealgeone; Mrs. Don-o; verga
Catholics think it's ok because Mary's name is in this "devotion".

Excise me for saying so but this is just wrong. We don't beleive all "devotions" are good, just because they are devotions. Obviously, if one "devotes" oneself to the love of money, or to Satan (as you pointed out), that's wrong, it's idolatry. Idolatry is putting anything or any-one over God, before Him.

This is not what a devotion to Mary (or any saint) is though; such devotions have at their root, as I pointed out, a desire for Christ to see Christ face to face. A love of Christ actually OVER the Saint in question.

Let me use an example from the earth we can more easily identify and correspond with: we all like and admire Mrs. Don-o for her calm demeanor and knowledge of Catholicism/Christianity she shares. Those of us who wish to deepen our faith, to grow in it as Catholics, as Christians, may at some point to to her, turn to HER, for advice, friendship (if we know her offline), even PRAYER. Why? Is she an "idol" to us? Does she "replace God" in our minds?

No! Of COURSE not! She is someone who (at least some of us) believe can help us grow closer to Christ, to help us know Him better and even someone to pray for us when we ask for it. If any of us would be so blessed to knkw her in person, we may even find ourselves having and expressing a special "devotion" to her, devoted to what she has to say and wishing to spend time with her (as a friend!). It's all very human. All of what I've said is a simple human example of "devotion", the kind Catholics refer to when speaking of "devotion". Indeed, we can all (hopefully) point to people in our offline lives who we are especially "devoted" to be it our parents or spouse or a close friend. It's not "idolatry", it's human devotion to another who one has found particularly useful in coming to know Christ better, Who is our ULTIMATE desire!

Now Mrs. Don-o, despite all she has to offer is still an imperfect human wallowing in sin like the rest of us (with all due respect to her of course). Just like any friend or spouse or parent no matter how holy on Earth. (I certainly identify with St. Paul when he said "I am the chief sinner", that is certainly me now). Is this our only recourse though, in our imperfect humanity? Thankfully NO!

The Church, as the Mystical Body of Christ links not only is here on Earth together, but also those in Heaven too with us here! We are all part of one Body, thus, just as the above example with Mrs. Don-O isn't "idolatry", so it also isn't with the saints in Heaven! Even MORE so with them because they are sin FREE! How much greater a friend, a companion on our journey TO CHRIST, can THEY be, indeed they ARE. By the same reasoning above.

No person, except the insane, believes devotion to Satan leads to Christ. But a human person can see that merely devoting oneself to another who has already achieved the goal after running the race and wining it already (ie the Saints) isn't idolatry at all.

It's the perfectly human way to obtain the aid we all need to meet Him, our Beloved, face to face. And that's all.

852 posted on 04/14/2015 10:44:17 AM PDT by FourtySeven (47)
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To: FourtySeven; Mrs. Don-o; verga
>Catholics think it's ok because Mary's name is in this "devotion".<

Excise me for saying so but this is just wrong. We don't beleive all "devotions" are good, just because they are devotions. Obviously, if one "devotes" oneself to the love of money, or to Satan (as you pointed out), that's wrong, it's idolatry. Idolatry is putting anything or any-one over God, before Him.

So how is pledging one's entire self to Mary, giving yourself entirely to you.....without reserve any different than giving yourself entirely to Satan??

The catholic is considering themselves to be her property and possession. How is this any different than if you pledged your life to Satan and asked him to keep you as his possession??

the "devotion" in question:

>My Queen and my Mother, I give myself entirely to you; and to show my devotion to you, I consecrate to you this day my eyes, my ears, my mouth, my heart, my whole being without reserve. Wherefore, good Mother, as I am your own, keep me, guard me, as your property and possession. Amen.<

This is not what a devotion to Mary (or any saint) is though; such devotions have at their root, as I pointed out, a desire for Christ to see Christ face to face. A love of Christ actually OVER the Saint in question.

I understand the difficulty catholics will have with this. You've been brought up since kids(?) being taught this is right. And now you are being asked to evaluate the real meaning of "devotion" to Mary when our real devotion should be to Christ and Christ alone.

Paul considered himself to be "in Christ". He never once hinted at being "in mary" or being devoted to her. None of the Apostles did.

855 posted on 04/14/2015 10:57:40 AM PDT by ealgeone
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To: FourtySeven
Excise me for saying so but this is just wrong.

You're just a cut up...

860 posted on 04/14/2015 11:48:43 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: FourtySeven
She is someone who (at least some of us) believe can help us grow closer to Christ, to help us know Him better and even someone to pray for us when we ask for it.The Biblical Mary is just as dead as Moses.
861 posted on 04/14/2015 11:49:48 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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