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To: Mrs. Don-o; FourtySeven; CynicalBear; metmom; verga
My Queen and my Mother, I give myself entirely to you; and to show my devotion to you, I consecrate to you this day my eyes, my ears, my mouth, my heart, my whole being without reserve. Wherefore, good Mother, as I am your own, keep me, guard me, as your property and possession. Amen.

Change My Queen and my mother to Satan.

Now do you understand the impact of a "prayer" devotion to Mary??

Catholics think it's ok because Mary's name is in this "devotion".

However, swap out her name for any other name and catholics would be howling heresy. Imagine the outcry if Luther's name was in this "devotion".

841 posted on 04/14/2015 9:43:45 AM PDT by ealgeone
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To: ealgeone

Logical fallacy of Reductio ad absurdum. Thank you the Mea Scripturaista have not posted one of these in a while. I am glad to see that you all can still nail it so well.


842 posted on 04/14/2015 9:47:39 AM PDT by verga (I might as well be playing chess with pigeons,.)
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To: ealgeone; Mrs. Don-o; FourtySeven; CynicalBear; metmom; verga
Change My Queen and my mother to Satan.

Well that's just silly, try this though:
[insert name of spouse here], I give myself entirely to you; and to show my devotion to you, I consecrate to you this day my eyes, my ears, my mouth, my heart, my whole being without reserve. Wherefore, [insert name of spouse here], as I am your own, keep me, guard me, as your property and possession. Amen.

In fact, I should call my wife right now... brb.

846 posted on 04/14/2015 10:16:37 AM PDT by Legatus (I think, therefore you're out of your mind)
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To: ealgeone; Mrs. Don-o; verga
Catholics think it's ok because Mary's name is in this "devotion".

Excise me for saying so but this is just wrong. We don't beleive all "devotions" are good, just because they are devotions. Obviously, if one "devotes" oneself to the love of money, or to Satan (as you pointed out), that's wrong, it's idolatry. Idolatry is putting anything or any-one over God, before Him.

This is not what a devotion to Mary (or any saint) is though; such devotions have at their root, as I pointed out, a desire for Christ to see Christ face to face. A love of Christ actually OVER the Saint in question.

Let me use an example from the earth we can more easily identify and correspond with: we all like and admire Mrs. Don-o for her calm demeanor and knowledge of Catholicism/Christianity she shares. Those of us who wish to deepen our faith, to grow in it as Catholics, as Christians, may at some point to to her, turn to HER, for advice, friendship (if we know her offline), even PRAYER. Why? Is she an "idol" to us? Does she "replace God" in our minds?

No! Of COURSE not! She is someone who (at least some of us) believe can help us grow closer to Christ, to help us know Him better and even someone to pray for us when we ask for it. If any of us would be so blessed to knkw her in person, we may even find ourselves having and expressing a special "devotion" to her, devoted to what she has to say and wishing to spend time with her (as a friend!). It's all very human. All of what I've said is a simple human example of "devotion", the kind Catholics refer to when speaking of "devotion". Indeed, we can all (hopefully) point to people in our offline lives who we are especially "devoted" to be it our parents or spouse or a close friend. It's not "idolatry", it's human devotion to another who one has found particularly useful in coming to know Christ better, Who is our ULTIMATE desire!

Now Mrs. Don-o, despite all she has to offer is still an imperfect human wallowing in sin like the rest of us (with all due respect to her of course). Just like any friend or spouse or parent no matter how holy on Earth. (I certainly identify with St. Paul when he said "I am the chief sinner", that is certainly me now). Is this our only recourse though, in our imperfect humanity? Thankfully NO!

The Church, as the Mystical Body of Christ links not only is here on Earth together, but also those in Heaven too with us here! We are all part of one Body, thus, just as the above example with Mrs. Don-O isn't "idolatry", so it also isn't with the saints in Heaven! Even MORE so with them because they are sin FREE! How much greater a friend, a companion on our journey TO CHRIST, can THEY be, indeed they ARE. By the same reasoning above.

No person, except the insane, believes devotion to Satan leads to Christ. But a human person can see that merely devoting oneself to another who has already achieved the goal after running the race and wining it already (ie the Saints) isn't idolatry at all.

It's the perfectly human way to obtain the aid we all need to meet Him, our Beloved, face to face. And that's all.

852 posted on 04/14/2015 10:44:17 AM PDT by FourtySeven (47)
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