The Shroud: Not a Painting, Not a Scorch, Not a Photograph

Catholic World Report ^ | March 27, 2015 | Jim Graves

[papertyger]

some couple claimed they took material from newer patch and not the original cloth....

Its not a "claim." Their research has been recognized by peer review, and endorsed by the lead researcher from the carbon dating project before his death.

...,but the image looks too much like painting of Jesus ,painted hundreds of years later

Has it never occurred to you the Shroud was the "model" rather than the other way round? This objection is meaningless.

[NYer]

Has anyone seen the host that turns into flesh and then back. It’s been tested also and they said it was from a man that suffered greatly and was under stress.

Perhaps you are referring to the Eucharistic Miracle of Lanicano.

Ancient Anxanum, the city of the Frentanese, has contained for over twelve centuries the first and greatest Eucharistic Miracle of the Catholic Church. This wondrous Event took place in the 8th century A.D. in the little Church of St. Legontian, as a divine response to a Basilian monk's doubt about Jesus' Real Presence in the Eucharist.

During Holy Mass, after the two-fold consecration, the host was changed into live Flesh and the wine was changed into live Blood, which coagulated into five globules, irregular and differing in shape and size.

The Host-Flesh, as can be very distinctly observed today, has the same dimensions as the large host used today in the Latin church; it is light brown and appears rose-colored when lighted from the back.

The Blood is coagulated and has an earthy color resembling the yellow of ochre.

Various ecclesiastical investigation ("Recognitions") were conducted since 1574.

In 1970-'71 and taken up again partly in 1981 there took place a scientific investigation by the most illustrious scientist Prof. Odoardo Linoli, eminent Professor in Anatomy and Pathological Histology and in Chemistry and Clinical Microscopy. He was assisted by Prof. Ruggero Bertelli of the University of Siena.

The analyses were conducted with absolute and unquestionable scientific precision and they were documented with a series of microscopic photographs.
These analyses sustained the following conclusions:

• The Flesh is real Flesh. The Blood is real Blood.
  
  
• The Flesh and the Blood belong to the human species.
  
  
• The Flesh consists of the muscular tissue of the heart.
  
  
• In the Flesh we see present in section: the myocardium, the endocardium, the vagus nerve and also the left ventricle of the heart for the large thickness of the myocardium.
  
  
• The Flesh is a "HEART" complete in its essential structure.
  
  
• The Flesh and the Blood have the same blood-type: AB (Blood-type identical to that which Prof. Baima Bollone uncovered in the Holy Shroud of Turin).
  
  
• In the Blood there were found proteins in the same normal proportions (percentage-wise) as are found in the sero-proteic make-up of the fresh normal blood.
  
  
• In the Blood there were also found these minerals: chlorides, phosphorus, magnesium, potassium, sodium and calcium.
  
  
• The preservation of the Flesh and of the Blood, which were left in their natural state for twelve centuries and exposed to the action of atmospheric and biological agents, remains an extraordinary phenomenon.

---

 

	Fig. 1 - Eosine x 200. Overall histological aspect of a Flesh sample with fibers collected in bundles with longitudinal orientation as it occurs in the outer surface layers of the heart.
	Fig. 2 - Miracle Heart in Lanciano. Mallory x 250. An artery and, very close, a branch of the vagal nerve.
	Fig. 3 - Miracle Heart in Lanciano. Mallory x 400. Evidence of the "Rough" aspect of the endocardium; the syncytoid structure of the myocardial tissue
	Fig. 4 - Elution-absorption test x 80. Above: Hemagglutination test on blood sample in Lanciano: on the left, anti A serum used; on the right, anti-B serum. Below: hemoagglutination test on a Flesh sample in Lanciano: left, with anti-A serum, right,with anti-B serum. It appears thus that the Flesh and the Blood in Lanciano belong to AB blood group.
	Fig. 5 - Electro-phoretic pattern of Blood proteins (Cromoscan photometer). The profile of serum fractions is normal and superimposable to that of a fresh serum sample.

In conclusion, it may be said that Science, when called upon to testify, has given a certain and thorough response as regards the authenticity of the Eucharistic Miracle of Lanciano.

[papertyger]

Thank you for the comprehensive reply to this pernicious rumor that refuses to die.

[Big Red Badger]

RESURRECTION PING!

[The Great RJ]

While there were a huge number of fake relics in Medieval Europe those that survive can be shown to be clever but crude forgeries. If the shroud were a Medieval fake, why would the image defy even the most sophisticate modern analysis? In those days a crude forgery would have fooled even the most educated. There would simply be no reason in those days to create such an elaborate hoax. There have also been I believe some very compelling questions about the radio carbon analysis.

[Empireoftheatom48]

I saw it too in 78 it was inspiring. We saw it on the last day of its exposition. Later that night after dinner we walked by the Cathedral and could see the STRUP team setting up their equipment!

[Swordmaker]

It looked that way until it was proved that the sample used for carbon dating was taken from a patch and not from the shroud material.

Actually it was a combination of original Shroud AND 16th Century patch material that varied from 60% to 40% patch depending on where on the original sample the sub-samples were cut. This resulted in the variation in dating reported by the three testing labs results in the four sub-samples tested which did not overlap in their degrees of confidence. THAT should have been a big red-flag that something was wrong.

[SkyDancer]

I thought this site was pretty good in defending the Shroud.

http://greatshroudofturinfaq.com/Science/Image/height.html

[SkyDancer]

Ping

[NewJerseyJoe]

P4L

[Talisker]

It’s an image of Jesus at the very moment of His resurrection, made by the very light of his dematerialization.

[Swordmaker]

Thank you for the comprehensive reply to this pernicious rumor that refuses to die.

That pernicious nature of the C-14 test was their intent. . . regardless that it has been falsified. . . and you are welcome. I did a lot of research and study to put all of that together. Feel free to use what you can from it.

[Swordmaker]

While there were a huge number of fake relics in Medieval Europe those that survive can be shown to be clever but crude forgeries. If the shroud were a Medieval fake, why would the image defy even the most sophisticate modern analysis? In those days a crude forgery would have fooled even the most educated. There would simply be no reason in those days to create such an elaborate hoax. There have also been I believe some very compelling questions about the radio carbon analysis.

The best argument against it being medieval fraud is the fact that fooling the hoi polloi and even the sophisticates of that era did not require sophisticated fakery. Grab a large cloth, smear it with some goat's blood in the appropriate locations, hang out a shingle and start collecting the sous of the pilgrims.

Some pig knuckles could substitute for the finger bones of John the Baptist. . . rinse repeat and you have the toe of Joan d'Arc. . . and the money flows in to your coffers.

[Swordmaker]

I thought this site was pretty good in defending the Shroud.

That's one of the sites run by our fellow Freeper Shroudie.

[Swordmaker]

some couple claimed they took material from newer patch and not the original cloth ,but the image looks too much like painting of Jesus ,painted hundreds of years later

Which came first? The paintings, or the image on the Shroud? The fact is that iconography, the study of religious art, shows that artistic images of Jesus started looking like the image on the Shroud with the appearance of a "miraculous not-made-by-human-hands image of Jesus on a cloth" called the "Image of Edessa," that had been walled up above the main gate to the city of Edessa to prevent it being destroyed by Iconoclasts from the 2nd Century until the 5th Century when an Earthquake revealed it. The Image of Edessa was reported to have been merely a facial image. . . however when the Edessan image was brought to Constantinople on August 15, 944 AD, the Sermon of Gregory Referendarius, the Arch Deacon of the Hagia Sophia on its arrival, described the cloth as not just a facial image, but the whole body. Excerpts from the Sermon of Gregory Referendarius where he is describing the image:

". . . A second light, immaterial and unique, came devotedly from you, an unexpected and material intertwining, natures distantly embracing heaven and earth, one living being made of two opposites: your human image, food from the clouds, a river flowing from a dry rock, and what is genuinely new under the sun, you were born a man in these last times from a virgin mother. You wiped clean the sweat of the nature you had taken on and what was wiped clean was transformed into an image of your unchanging form, just like Adam's form was drawn out of the ground, like the eyes of nature in the folds of the kneaded earth. . .

. . . . For these are the beauties that have made up the true imprint of Christ, since after the drops fell, it was embellished by drops from his own side., Both are highly instructive – blood and water there, here sweat and image. Oh equality of happenings, since both have their origin in the same person. The source of living water can be seen and it gives us water, showing us that the origin of the image made by sweat is in fact of the same nature as the origin of that which makes the liquid flow from the side. . .

The only way that Gregory would be referring to an "unchanging form" and the wound in the side is if he had seen the Image of Edessa as a full figure image and not just a facial image.

It is thought that prior to coming to Constantinople, the Image of Edessa was encased in a lattice work frame. Drawings of the Image showed such a framework surrounding the image. When it arrived, it was probably taken out of the frame and exposed for what it truly was, the Shroud. It was reported to be a TetraDiplong. Double folded in Four. Folding the Shroud in such a fashion results in just the face showing and the Shroud has creases to this day from being folded in just such a fashion.

After 944 AD, the inventory of the religious relics held in Constantinople did not list the image of Edessa among the relics but did list, for the first time, the "Burial Shroud of Our Lord Jesus Christ".

[Swordmaker]

Actually, the “image” is a 3-D replica that was “burned” into the shroud when Christ rose - not a painting - ala a micro Big Bang burst of energy.

It actually is not truly 3D, it is however a database of 3D data in a 2D representation, a terrain map in which 3D data is encoded in the image by distance being inversely proportional to the intensity of the image. i.e., the closer the cloth, the darker the image.

[zot]

Thanks for the further explanation at your post # 28.

I have read that the interwoven material in the patch was cotton, not linen, which was proved because it glowed under ultraviolet light.

[newfreep]

uhhhh, sounds like 3D to me....and many, many scientists.

Focus, man...and less leftist rambling!

[lonevoice]

A subject that has never failed to mesmerize me since I first read the book about it in 1978.