Posted on 03/25/2015 10:46:15 PM PDT by Steelfish
“It’s truly HIS opinion...nothing more.”
No, it’s also absolutely true.
“So you DO believe you worship the same god as Muslims?”
Do Jews believe in the Trinity?
“How about the same Jesus as Mormons?”
Do Mormons believe in the Trinity?
“With God, it doesn’t involve intercourse (because intercourse is a physiological interaction, and God does not have physiological parts) but it’s still supposed to involve love and respect. Don’t try to tell me it doesn’t. If your ‘god’ didn’t love and respect Mary enough to care about her voluntary gift of her body and her love, then your ‘god’ has not the morals of an ordinary sexist pig.”
You’re making the grave mistake of anthropomorphizing God and believing that you can judge Him by our standards, when those standards were created by Him, to govern us, and not the other way around. God’s response to Job, starting in Job chapter 38 is a good illustration of how foolish this way of thinking is. God is sovereign, and you cannot judge His behavior or decisions based on our human standards. That would be even more foolish than an ant believing he could judge a human.
You didn’t answer my questions.
“You seem not to understand that the marital consent is a consent to be open to a new life.”
Ah, then there are matters like rape, and incest, where there was no consent. If God allows a child to be produced from such an act, by your logic, He is complicit in violating the woman. Don’t you see that this line of thinking actually plays into the hands of those who think that we can be justified in aborting such children?
No, God does not need our consent to bless us, and giving us children is a blessing! He does not ask our consent when He causes the rain to fall, or when he causes our crops to grow, and neither does He need to ask our consent when he blesses us with a child.
“You didn’t answer my questions.”
You didn’t answer mine - and mine are all about arriving at an answer for yours.
So, do Jews and Mormons believe in the Trinity?
I’ll not play your silly games. The catechism which you are required to believe states that Catholics serve the same god as Muslims. The god of Muslims is NOT the God of scripture therefore we can only conclude that neither is the god of Catholicism.
Abortion under circumstances of rape is wrong, not because God was the co-rapist causing the pregnancy, but because every child conceived has the most basic human right: the right to simply go on living. This inheres in their human dignity.
What amazes me, boogieman, is the sustained effort on the part of some FReepers on this RF (not mentioning any names) who go way out of their way, over and over, to insist that this was not a Covenant of Love. To insist that God did not treat Mary as a beloved woman and therefore did not wait for her "Fiat," her "be it done unto me according to Your word."
Every line about "God's love" in the Holy Scripture is negated if we think God would seize a woman against her will to be His reproductive concubine, as if He were Muhammad taking possession of a captured woman.
If it were not a matter of God loving Mary, and Mary loving God, then we indeed have a situation that God is the equivalent of an oriental despot (that's what some FReepers mean by "sovereign") and holiness is reduced to "Just shut up and take it, Inshallah."
I can't bear the trashing dished out to this noble Jewish girl, our Blessed Mary, on this forum. The offenders won't even call her "Blessed" as she prophesied future generations would do. This drive to knock down, level, minimize and defame her ---how repulsive it all is. I'm outta here.
“The catechism which you are required to believe states that Catholics serve the same god as Muslims.”
Do Jews say they serve the God of Abraham?
Don’t Muslims say they serve the God of Abraham?
Don’t Christians say they serve the God of Abraham?
If you said yes to all three questions - and there is no way to say otherwise - then you serve the same God Muslims claim to serve. Enjoy.
**No. There is no debate here.**
Only because of your refusal to debate me; the proof being in answering less than 10% my questions, and even less of the assertions.
**Everything I said is true.**
Let God be true, and every man a liar. Are you God? /sarc
**There is nothing you can say to overturn anything I said.**
There wasn’t much to overturn, since you said so little. Besides the numerous points I made in 5 posts to you, I referred to scripture 27 times.
You countered those scriptures...........?????.....zero times.
You referred to scripture.........????.....zero times.
I know that I have not wasted my time when I have given you scripture to digest. It just appears that you are determined to be ‘wayside’ for the seed to fall on.
Adois, gotta go drive. (may God guide our way today, I pray.)
“Only because of your refusal to debate me; the proof being in answering less than 10% my questions, and even less of the assertions.”
The debate was already closed. Everything I said was true - and no, one doesn’t have to be God to get basic things absolutely correct. Nothing you posted in any way overturned any thing I said.
Jesus is God. Mary is His mother. Mary is the mother of God. There’s no way to overturn that.
Beautiful words, born, and borne, in love
And they do although they haven't accepted the deity of Christ and that He actually is their Messiah. The Jews believe in the God of the Old Testament. God Himself in scripture tells us that the people of Israel are His people and He is currently gathering them back to the land He gave them.
>>Don’t Muslims say they serve the God of Abraham?<<
By their own descriptions of him it's obvious that it's not the God of scripture. God never once said He was the God of Ishmael.
>>Don’t Christians say they serve the God of Abraham?<<
The one an only God of scripture.
Now, according to the Catholic Catechism the Catholic Church as aligned itself with the god of the Muslims.
“God is not complicit in violating a woman just because she has a healthy reproductive physiology. If she gets pregnant via rape, God is not complicit with the rapist... I did not suggest that, and I hope you don’t want to suggest that.”
You did indeed suggest that, by the train of your logic. When you assert that God could be guilty of violating Mary if He didn’t ask her consent, there are logical consequences to that assertion that lead directly to this precipice.
“Abortion under circumstances of rape is wrong, not because God was the co-rapist causing the pregnancy, but because every child conceived has the most basic human right: the right to simply go on living.”
The question isn’t whether abortion is wrong, the issue is that your logic coincides with the logic of those who want to excuse abortion by claiming that it is justified because their child is “unwanted”. You are not excusing abortions, thank God, but you are heading in that direction when you class children as impositions or violations and not blessings.
“What amazes me, boogieman, is the sustained effort on the part of some FReepers on this RF (not mentioning any names) who go way out of their way, over and over, to insist that this was not a Covenant of Love. To insist that God did not treat Mary as a beloved woman and therefore did not wait for her “Fiat,” her “be it done unto me according to Your word.””
That’s not what I am arguing against. It very well could have happened that way, but we have no witness to say that it did. What I am arguing against is your assertion that it MUST have happened that way, because that assertion is based on bad logic that minimizes God to something that can be judged by the standards of man.
“Every line about “God’s love” in the Holy Scripture is negated if we think God would seize a woman against her will to be His reproductive concubine, as if He were Muhammad taking possession of a captured woman.”
This is no different than the arguments of atheists who accuse God of mass murder for sending the flood to wipe out all but one family of humanity. You cannot judge God as if He were a man!
“I can’t bear the trashing dished out to this noble Jewish girl, our Blessed Mary, on this forum.”
Oh, please, nobody is trashing her. We’re having a discussion about logic and theology. The only one getting emotional seems to be you.
27 to 0.
(had to take a last peek. bye now)
Amen. Thanks.
“And they do although they haven’t accepted the deity of Christ and that He actually is their Messiah.”
And Muslims believe Jesus is a prophet. Both Jews and Muslims say they believe in the God of Abraham. Neither believes in the Trinity. Both groups clearly lack a proper understanding of God according to what has been revealed by God about Himself.
“God never once said He was the God of Ishmael.”
Did He have to? It’s not as if God didn’t bless him. Genesis 17:20
“Now, according to the Catholic Catechism the Catholic Church as aligned itself with the god of the Muslims.”
You profess belief in the God of Abraham. So do Jews. So do Muslims. So you profess the same thing as two groups that deny Christ. Enjoy.
Gabriel didn't ask Mary anything...
That's where the fable starts...
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