Posted on 02/28/2015 12:25:36 PM PST by umpqua
amen
Yet not only won't you engage me on those interpretations (for I even have support for them out of your own Targums), but you can't.
Here ya go Rocky. It’s entitled “A Messianic Illusion Pierced.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vp1kKhVCgw4&list=PLD3DF0E2817D81B0D&index=11
GPH: “It’s been 2000 years...”
Could we not say that Jews and Gentiles are relying on faith? Where’s your second coming already??
Dear Christians:
Every so.often FR has one of these threads arguing Judaism vs Christianity. That may not be how it starts, but that’s where it ends up. Whenever I spot one of these threads, if I have time, I deliver this message or plea: let’s agree to respect each other’s religious feelings. I’m not her on FR to convert anyone to Judaism and Christians should not use this excellent site to try to convert Jews. Similarly, let us explain our views without succumbing to the temptation to criticize, denounce or invalidate the views of others here.
Candidly, I am always shocked when Christian engage in these polemics telling Jews they have been rejected by G-d, missed the boat and, most ridiculous of all, that Jews have misinterpreted their own scriptures these last 3,000 years and more and that’s why we screwed up.
I am an Orthodox Jew. I’m not a great scholar in Torah, but I have been fortunate enough to be trained how to study all Jewish texts in the original Hebrew and Aramaic and I devote some time, especially on Shabbos, studying various aspects of Torah. Today was a pretty typical day: I studied the Torah portion of the week for about an hour and a half, including the 900 year-old Rashi commentary and the Aramaic translation by the Jewish convert, Onkelos. At synagogue, I heard my Rabbi, a great Torah scholar, give lectures on the philosophy of Jewish prayers, on the weekly Torah portion, on the laws of Shabbos, and on the upcoming Purim holiday and the hidden nature of G-D’s wonderful care,and protection of the Jewish people from sinister forces and plots. Between prayers and studies, I devoted about 7 hours immersed in spiritual Judaism. The point is, I’m not a loosely affiliated, unlearned Jew. Respectfully, I know what I’m talking about.
With that in mind, Christian friends, please trust me when I say, as far as your attempts to tell me what Torah scriptures say, you don’t have the slightest clue of what you are talking about. You are quoting from sources that are themselves deliberate misrepresentations of what the scriptures actually say for the purpose of either converting ignorant Jews or trying to make the New Testament consistent with the Torah. Besides misrepresentations, the translations are wrong, the concepts are wrong and the claims are diametrically opposed to every other source that addresses the same topic.
Look, you want to believe what you want to believe. I get that. But please realize how positively obnoxious it is to tell your fellow conservative here on FR who happens to be Jewish, that his religion is all wrong, G-d hates him, he doesn’t understand his own scriptures and he’s going to burn in hell unless he gets with the Jesus program. I’m just asking you to show a little respect.
A PS. I expect 2 particular responses: 1) the OP posted Link to a video,saying Jesus wasn’t the Jewish Messiah. Isn’t that the same thing you’re asking us not to do? 2) Sorry, my Christian belief requires me to “testify”, which includes straightening out you wayward Jews.
As to 1), the video simply explains the Jewish view at a website called Jews for Judaism. It does not attempt to proselytize to Christians or convince them they’re wrong. It’s adressed to Jews who are uncertain about claims that Jesus is the Messiah according to Jewish scriptures.
As to 2), there is a time and a place for everything under the sun. A time for war, a time for peace and so on. I respectfully submit that dialogue among friends in the great conservative struggle of our times, is not the time. As the descendant of Jews who stubbornly resisted the Egyptians, the Phillistines, the Assyrians, the Persians, the Babylonians, the Romans, the Visigoths, the Mohamedans, the Crusaders, the Inquisition, the Pogroms, the Czars, the Commisars, the Nazi’s and the Arab Hordes, I can tell you with absolute certainty: We are the Jewish people. We’re here to stay. Your swords and your burning stakes and your concentration camps and your gas chambers and your firing squads have not shaken our faith. Do you think these little pinpricks of misguided quotations and declarations are going to change anything? If you do, I have a nice little bridge for sale....
But what if he shows up for a short while, does nothing per what the Christians believe he’s supposed to do, and then disappears or dies?
Will there be a third coming or even a fourth?
Depends on what you mean by faith, for "blind faith" is not the same thing as a faith that is reasonable. If the scepter of Judah was not to depart until the coming of the Messiah, for example, but then the scepter departs and no Messiah comes, then you have a blind faith.
This thread was started by a Jewish person (presumably), launching a polemic against Christians.
Besides, Christians have no such hangup against proselytization, one way or the other. Preaching the Gospel and getting you to convert is the salvation of your soul. To fail to do so is hatred towards you. If you claim to have the truth and withhold it from me, then you do me a significant harm.
Well said.
My Christian FRiends, I’d like to add to please remember that our Judaism does not compel us to prove to ourselves or to others that ours is the right or only way. This is a huge difference. We know you need to. Our rabbis help teach us that Christianity is absolutely the right way for Christians. I love that about our religion.
And here we are all together discussing [how to get back to] our Free Republic as Gd-fearing, conservative people. That means something. Glad we are here together. Let’s share respect.
Your prooftext is cherry-picked. Judaism is a bit more resilient.
You and every Christian is waiting, waiting... From your very words. 2000 years. Are there workshops and self-help groups for that? My point is, Jews also try to find meaning or reason for the wait.
These sure are interesting times.
Indeed. To Jews, a time when Muslims are suicidally murderous and Christians are mostly just suicidally annoying. There have been other interesting times when the reverse was true.
Say whatever helps your wait go smoother for you I guess...
Don't bet on it. Why is my religion in need of something from your religion? It's not. Your ridiculous self-centered statement is tantamount to me suggesting you take up Islam and accept Allah as your god. Or worship Thor. Or start sacrificing children to Baal.
Most Jews did NOT believe J.C. was the messiah, because he did not fulfill the messianic requirements put forth in the Torah. Stop inventing "facts" to support your pathetic statements.
No amount of argument from you or your messiah buddies here will be sufficient to deny what the Torah says, so save bandwidth, save time, and peddle your "facts" elsewhere.
It’s providential
Literally
Well thank heavens I'll be spared from converting to the WRONG KIND! Matter of fact, I think I'll play it safe and just stick to my own religion, the unsullied original Judaism.
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