Posted on 02/24/2015 7:04:16 PM PST by redleghunter
It seems to me that is an implicit endorsement of antisemitism.
Luther nor did Popes write Scriptures.
The author invoked Luther, and you invoked the author.
In April, 1521, Martin Luther appeared before his ecclesiastical accusers at the Diet of Worms. They had given him the ultimatum to repudiate his unwavering faith in the sufficiency and perspicuity of the Scriptures. Luther is said to have responded, “Unless I am convicted by Scripture and plain reason–I do not accept the authority of popes and councils, for they have contradicted each other–my conscience is captive to the Word of God… God help me! Here I stand.”
Like Martin Luther, may we rise above the doubts within and confront the threats without when God’s Word is assailed. God help us to be loyal contenders of the faith. Let us stand with God and the Scripture alone.
So based on your line of argument, you shoot yourself in the foot.
I have kept my integrity.
Rome acted on their anti-semitism.
Undoubtably; perhaps a million were slaughtered and the residue sold into slavery. Reformers celebrate to this at what Jews mourn.
I don’t know what happened. You used to be a reasoned poster on FR. I enjoyed our exchanges even though we did not agree at times.
You posted an article appealing to Luther..
So I will say once again...Luther is not my Pope and he is not the source of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. My salvation, as should be your’s, is at the foot of Calvary and the Empty Tomb of Jesus Christ.
Then do not defend him; remain silent. Perhaps you did not read the article you posted and did not see the author's syncophntic appeal to the vile antisemite Luther.
In any event Luther is foundational to the so called Reformation, selecting which books were to be in his bible and mistranslating on purpose to support his new doctrines. He is not the last rebel to adopt this tack.
If you want to discuss the Holy Spirit Inspired Holy Scriptures, I will continue this dialogue. If not, we have no more to discuss.
Your choice; own your words.
If you believe otherwise, publish your justification.
What exactly is your obsession with Luther?
~ Cardinal John Henry Newman, Catholic Convert, FORMER PROTESTANT
If you actually read Newman, you'll see his complex theory of doctrinal development. He acknowledges that current Roman Catholic doctrines and practices are different than the early church. He argues that the current doctrine and practices were "hidden" in the early church. These hidden elements were brought out over time under the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
If you accept Newman's view, you must accept that the early church had an incomplete faith. You may want to champion "doctrinal development", but I do not.
Inventing the word "trinity" to explain a belief is one thing. Inventing the supremacy of the pope among all bishops is quite another.
I have no obsession with Luther. He holds no particular significance to me.
If true, turn around and go defend the Jews somewhere else.
The Jews along with all of the children of Israel are God's chesen people and always will be. We true believers having only been grafted in to the vine. The time of Jacob's trouble is coming during which all of Israel will turn to God and be saved.
I see your question now. You are asking 'who decides who is part of the Body of Christ, His church.?' Well at least that is the entry argument to get to your conclusion of ecclesiology.
What is the witness of the NT church and epistles on the matter?
Acts 2:47 King James Version (KJV)
47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.
"And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved." Not Peter et. al., but the Lord.
Paul discussed this a bit as well.
Romans 8:
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. 12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. 15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: 17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. 18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, 21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. 24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it. 26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. 28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? 32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? 33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. 37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Will add the book to my list.
Currently reading “Jesus on Every Page.”
By asserting such you condemn your own church.
Thank you. I saw a question mark in your first statement. Now I see you used it to present your point.
In 'Catholic Answers' type zeal some here don't know they nuke the Eastern Orthodox and other Orthodox churches when claiming Rome has the one true canon of scriptures. The various Orthodox churches have additional books in their canon. So much for a OTC.
"To be deep in God's Word one ceases to recognize the medieval Roman church."---Redleghunter
Newman was also the Cardinal in the Catholic Church who clearly admitted that the Catholic Church incorporates paganism. What a guy!
Again, the quotes in the article used from Luther are irrelevant to your thread hijacking.
Using your approach you impeach your own Roman church.
Is there supposed to be an answer in the block of Scripture to my question: How is consensus derived from an invisible entity"?
If I were a Christian living in that time and place, how would I know how to find the invisible church so I could participate in building the consensus?
Who were the ministers of this invisible church?
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>> “ How can consensus exist among the invisible?” <<
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That question is deception!
The invisible Assembly of Yeshua neither needs, nor has any “canon” of scripture.
Corporations of men do strive to control what can be called “The Word of God” without his consent.
When Mac says “the church,” he means obviously the spiritually deprived nicolaitans that foolishly try to rule over the Assembly.
The Assembly needs, and has, only the Holy Spirit to guide them. When they read NT writings, they compare them to the established word of God that survived through the centuries in the form of the Hebrew scriptures, later translated into other languages, with the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
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A demonstrably false statement on your part
Again, the quotes in the article used from Luther are irrelevant to your thread hijacking.
Another false statement on your part
Using your approach you impeach your own Roman church.
When Jesus had thus said, he was troubled in spirit, and testified, and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, that one of you shall betray me. Then the disciples looked one on another, doubting of whom he spake. Now there was leaning on Jesus' bosom one of his disciples, whom Jesus loved. Simon Peter therefore beckoned to him, that he should ask who it should be of whom he spake. He then lying on Jesus' breast saith unto him, Lord, who is it? Jesus answered, He it is, to whom I shall give a sop, when I have dipped it. And when he had dipped the sop, he gave it to Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon. And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly.
-John, Catholic chapter thirteen, Protestant verses twenty one to twenty seven, as authorized by King James
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>> “how would I know how to find the invisible church so I could participate in building the consensus?” <<
A true member of that assembly should not have to even ask such a question. It would be impossible for us to explain the answer to one that has to ask.
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