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Salvation by grace alone through faith alone excludes works righteousness
Possessing the Treasure ^ | February 16, 2015 | Mike Ratliff

Posted on 02/19/2015 4:20:17 PM PST by RnMomof7

7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming for baptism, he said to them, “You brood of vipers, who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8 Therefore bear fruit in keeping with repentance; 9 and do not suppose that you can say to yourselves, ‘ We have Abraham for our father’; for I say to you that from these stones God is able to raise up children to Abraham. 10 The axe is already laid at the root of the trees; therefore every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 11 “As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. 12 His winnowing fork is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clear His threshing floor; and He will gather His wheat into the barn, but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.” (Matthew 3:7-12 NASB)

In the passage above John the Baptist was addressing a form of spiritual blindness that was afflicting the Pharisees and Sadducees. Is there the same sort of stubborn blindness pertaining to Christianity? Yes, sadly there is. Spiritual blindness is a darkness beyond our ability to describe. This blindness is rampant in the “visible Church” in our day. Jesus prophesied about this.

24 “ Strive to enter through the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able. 25 Once the head of the house gets up and shuts the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock on the door, saying, ‘ Lord, open up to us! ’ then He will answer and say to you, ‘ I do not know where you are from. ’ 26 Then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets’; 27 and He will say, ‘I tell you, I do not know where you are from; depart from ME, all you evildoers. ’ 28 In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but yourselves being thrown out. 29 And they will come from east and west and from north and south, and will recline at the table in the kingdom of God. 30 And behold, some are last who will be first and some are first who will be last.” (Luke 13:24-30 NASB)

Many who believe they are Christians are not. They have a form of righteousness, but it is not the righteousness born from above. It is self-righteousness. One group that contended with John the Baptist, Our Lord Jesus Christ and His disciples, was the Pharisees. Who hasn’t heard believers accusing other believers of being a Pharisee? These accusations are usually thrown at people who are stricter than the accuser in their judgments of saved and lost. The Liberal calls a person who judges on the basis of regeneration as the only evidence of saving faith as being a Pharisee. The mainstream church-goer calls all fundamentalists Pharisees. The antinomian calls those who preach Lordship salvation Pharisees.

Is this accurate? Are these examples of modern day Pharisees? Let us look in the Word for our answer.

Who were the Pharisees of the Bible? They were the religious conservatives within Judaism. They held very strictly to the Torah and the Talmud and were outwardly very moral. They were the leaders of the majority of the Jews and were very popular with the common people. They were revered by their followers for their religious zeal and dedication, and they were models worthy if imitation. Their main opposition were the Sadducees, the religious liberals within Judaism. They did not believe that the damned will be punished eternally in hell and that the saved will dwell eternally in heaven. The Sadducees were popular among the high-class minority.

The first mention of the Pharisees in the Bible is found in Matthew 3:7-12, which I placed at the top of this post. Here is is again.

7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming for baptism, he said to them, “You brood of vipers, who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8 Therefore bear fruit in keeping with repentance; 9 and do not suppose that you can say to yourselves, ‘ We have Abraham for our father’; for I say to you that from these stones God is able to raise up children to Abraham. 10 The axe is already laid at the root of the trees; therefore every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 11 “As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. 12 His winnowing fork is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clear His threshing floor; and He will gather His wheat into the barn, but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.” (Matthew 3:7-12 NASB)

Why would John the Baptist say that the Pharisees, who were outwardly moral, zealous, and religious, were the brood of vipers? Why would he say that they had not brought forth good fruit? Isn’t obedience to the law good fruit? Who was he to judge the hearts of these fine upstanding religious people? Wasn’t he being too harsh with them? Couldn’t he have toned it down a bit? Was “brood of vipers” really necessary? Isn’t that mean and unloving? How did he expect to gain an audience with such language? Didn’t he know that one catches more flies with honey than with vinegar? And what was he doing lumping them in with the Sadducces, who didn’t even believe in an afterlife?

John the Baptist was absolutely correct in his rebuke of the Pharisees. Both John and our Lord reserved their harshest words for these men as well. The reason Liberal Theology has so decimated the Church in our day is that most Christians have believed the lie that they must not speak up or confront other professing Christians. Why? They believe that it will reflect badly on Christ and the Church to have these contentions made public. However, John the Baptist and our Lord certainly didn’t refrain from telling the truth.

However, before Christians can emulate them, they must know the reason why the Pharisees were judged to be lost by our Lord and John. We cannot make these judgments based on any feelings about them. We cannot “discern” that they are lost. We must look at the evidence and judge them to be lost based on Biblical truth.

6 And Jesus said to them, “Watch out and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees.” (Matthew 16:6 NASB)

The Greek words for watch is ορατε or horate the finite, plural, Present tense, Imperative mood, and Active voice case of ὁράω or horaō, which means “to discern clearly.” What were the disciples to beware of? The answer is found in Matthew 16:12.

12 Then they understood that He did not say to beware of the leaven of bread, but of the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees. (Matthew 16:12 NASB)

The Greek Word for teaching is διδαχή or didachē. It means instruction or doctrine. The disciples were warned by our Lord to beware of their doctrine. Their doctrine was the evidence that they were lost. Now I know that many believe the doctrine of the Pharisees to be correct, but their problem was their legalism. Those who say this often use this argument to call those who insist on correct Gospel doctrine Pharisees. However, our Lord’s words tell us that their problem was their doctrine not their legalism. They did not hold Orthodox doctrine. Instead, they held heterodox doctrine.

het·er·o·dox
-adjective
1. not in accordance with established or accepted doctrines or opinions, esp. in theology; unorthodox.
2. holding unorthodox doctrines or opinions.
[Origin: 1610–20; < Gk heteródoxos of another opinion, equiv. to hetero- hetero- + dóx(a) opinion (Compare dokeǐn to think, suppose) + -os adj. suffix]
—Related forms
het·er·o·dox·ly, adverb
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.

The Pharisees held unorthodox or heterodox doctrine. Jesus also tells us that they worshiped God in vain.

8 ‘ This people honors ME with their lips, But their heart is far away from ME. 9 ‘ But in vain do they worship ME, Teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.'” (Matthew 15:8-9 NASB)

These men did worship and appeared to be very worshipful. However, since they held false doctrines they were lost and, therefore, their worship was in vain. Their doctrine was not of the Sacred Scripture, but was the doctrines of men. They emphasized tradition over Biblical commandments. (Matthew 15:6) They did not abide in the doctrine of Christ. (2 John 9) Since their doctrines were of men instead of the Sacred Scripture, they made their judgements on their vain imaginations. If you have ever participated in some “theological discussions” with emergents or liberals then you will recognize that one.

20 So then, you will know them by their fruits. (Matthew 7:20 NASB)

How can we know of what someone’s doctrine consists? Jesus said that we can know this by observing their fruit.

43 For there is no good tree which produces bad fruit, nor, on the other hand, a bad tree which produces good fruit. 44 For each tree is known by its own fruit. For men do not gather figs from thorns, nor do they pick grapes from a briar bush. 45 The good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth what is good; and the evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth what is evil; for his mouth speaks from that which fills his heart. (Luke 6:43-45 NASB)

I know that many have not grasped this truth, but our Lord is always right and He says that the fruit is what a person’s mouth speaks because the mouth speaks what is in the heart. Therefore, we can know what the Pharisee’s doctrine consisted of by observing their spoken words from the Bible.

9 And He also told this parable to some people who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and viewed others with contempt: (Luke 18:9 NASB)

This passage introduced Jesus’ parable about the tax collector and the Pharisee praying in the temple. He spoke it directly to the Pharisees. The Pharisees relied on themselves for their righteousness. This is self-rightetousness or works-righteousness. They believed that their good works merited them God’s favor. Their doctrine or theology was one of “Do” instead one of trusting in what God has “Done.”

2 For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge. 3 For not knowing about God’s righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God. (Romans 10:2-3 NASB)

This description by the Apostle Paul is of all self-righteous Jews, not just the Pharisees. It is also a description of all self-righteous professing Christians who are depending upon their own works to save them instead of trusting in what God has done for them. Zeal for religion based in the knowledge of false doctrine is nothing but an abomination to God. According to this passage we see what the missing piece is in all “Pharisee’s” doctrine. What is it? They are ignorant of the necessity of submitting to God’s righteousness nor do they know anything of grace. Where can we learn of God’s righteousness?

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “ But the righteous man shall live by faith.” (Romans 1:16-17 NASB)

21 But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; 25 whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed; 26 for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. (Romans 3:21-26 NASB)

People who are ignorant of God’s righteousness cannot submit to it. Therefore, they go about establishing a righteousness of their own. This is why we stress the Sovereignty of God so much here. This why I try to end each piece I write with either “SDG” or “Soli Deo Gloria.” This is why we must come to terms with God’s righteousness if we are ever going to grow in Christlikeness and become Spirit-filled. Only those who walk by faith are obedient in their submission to God’s righteousness for every deed done in the flesh is sin.

This is also why we must learn proper doctrine such as Salvation is by Grace through Faith. We are justified by faith alone, apart from works. Through this we learn that the righteousness which saves us is imputed to us. It is Christ’s righteousness, not our own. If we take this to heart we will not view our salvation as a correct decision, but instead, we see it for the miracle it is. This changes everything in how we serve Him. How can we be self-righteous if our salvation was entirely by Grace?

As many of you know, I grew up as a Southern Baptist. I was a Deacon in two SBC churches, one in Oklahoma and the other in Kansas. I was a Bible teacher as well. In 2004-2005 I underwent a theology overhaul by God. The end result of that was that my theology become subject to the Sovereignty of God. I finally came to understand that salvation is God’s work from beginning to end. Through this understanding I looked back at all those years in the SBC and it made me weep. Why? Much of the SBC culture is one of “Do” instead of being built around what God has “Done.” The emphasis is on “a changed life” instead of the Sovereignty of God.

I remember the countless Deacon meetings where it seemed that all we ever did was to strategize how to get the pew sitters busy. The evidence of salvation we looked for in people was how busy they were because of how God had impacted their lives. Of course, now I know that regeneration makes Christians New Creations who have a faith that is alive. This enables them to not sin if they walk by this faith. Instead of looking for this “change” we looked for how religious people were.

Phariseeism is the Religion of Do or Works-Righteousness. Christians in bondage to this will view their salvation in the context of a decision. They will attempt to live this out by being as religious as possible. Of course, unless they are regenerate and have the Holy Spirit, they will eventually stumble. Some will remain religious of course, but without the supernatural power of a regenerate heart, saving faith, and The Holy Spirit they will find their own righteousness instead of possessing Christ’s Righteousness. This is confusing sanctification with justification. Justification is a declaration by God of not-guilty on our behalf. Sanctification is the process whereby Christians are conformed unto the image of Christ as they abide in Christ. Those in the Religion of Works-Righteousness attempt to sanctify themselves by being religious. They believe their “works” merit them favor from God. It is no different than what the Pharisees did in Christ’s day.

Undoubtedly there are some genuine Christians enslaved to the Religion of Works-Righteousness. I was one. I pray that God will draw them out of it into the light. We must not condemn, but pray for and share the truth with them. It is not being Pharisaical to tell the truth.

Soli Deo Gloria!



TOPICS: Apologetics; Evangelical Christian; Mainline Protestant; Theology
KEYWORDS: lent; sacrifice; works
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To: Mark17

Amen!


61 posted on 02/20/2015 8:10:55 AM PST by Zuriel (Acts 2:38,39....Do you believe it?)
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To: Zuriel

“You do realize the context, I hope...

Paul is writing “unto the churches of Galatia” (1:2), or anyone displaying their situation: Having been born again (obedience to Acts 2:38; it IS from heaven, and not of men.) some chose to continue in the works of the Law, which was done away with by the Lord.”

Yes the Galatians scripture is clear and in agreement with what Christ accomplished. Did you have a question or some concern about my simply posting it?


62 posted on 02/20/2015 8:18:49 AM PST by ScottfromNJ
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism; boatbums
hmm, didn’t think I was breaking any rules, but then I don’t make or interpret the rules.

By what measuring rod do you determine if the rules are correct?

63 posted on 02/20/2015 8:20:29 AM PST by RnMomof7
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To: CynicalBear
The answer to both of those is faith.

So you're saying God's power didn't cause the walls of Jericho to fall?

And you're saying faith wasn't necessary for the walls to fall?

No offense, but that's unbiblical nonsense. You can't support it from the Scriptures.
64 posted on 02/20/2015 8:21:39 AM PST by LearsFool ("Thou shouldst not have been old, till thou hadst been wise.")
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To: metmom

Thanks metmom, I have been blessed by this thread and so many other Christians proclaiming the truth ;-)!


65 posted on 02/20/2015 8:24:51 AM PST by JSDude1
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To: RnMomof7; boatbums

By what measuring rod do you determine if the rules are correct


as the saying goes, he who pays the piper calls the tune...

in this case, the “rules” are made by the owners of FR and rightly so since it is their site and they are free to make whatever rules they wish. further, it is my understanding that a RM has been appointed to interpret those rules and enforce them. so whatever the RM decides by definition must be “correct” and that is the measuring rod I use. ( even if I disagree with the interpretation! )


66 posted on 02/20/2015 8:40:37 AM PST by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: LearsFool; CynicalBear
The fruit of the Spirit is this.

Galatians 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.

The emphasis on works is emphasis on the wrong thing as fruit.

1 Corinthians 13:1-3 If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Any old sinner can do good works and many of them do and Jesus said that there would be those who appealed to their works, even to the miraculous, and He will tell them that He NEVER KNEW THEM.

They were never even saved to begin with.

67 posted on 02/20/2015 8:47:21 AM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism; boatbums; RnMomof7

People would be better served reading Scripture than opinion pieces of men.

That way they’ll be SURE of getting Truth.


68 posted on 02/20/2015 8:49:52 AM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: ScottfromNJ

**Yes the Galatians scripture is clear and in agreement with what Christ accomplished.**

It is in agreement with what Christ had done for the Galatian churches, who had already been preached to and converted by the Lord’s ordained plan. But, my concern is the usage of epistle verses (written to people who already know how to be born again) to preach salvation, while ignoring the commandments of the Lord for conversion, which are found in his commissions, and in the instructions given in Acts 2:38.

For what has the Lord accomplished if people ignore (don’t have faith in) his own words, and the words of his personally taught apostles, when being instructed the way of rebirth?


69 posted on 02/20/2015 8:52:42 AM PST by Zuriel (Acts 2:38,39....Do you believe it?)
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To: LearsFool
>>So you're saying God's power didn't cause the walls of Jericho to fall?<<

Please show where I said "God's power didn't cause the walls of Jericho to fall".

>>And you're saying faith wasn't necessary for the walls to fall?<<

You didn't read my post?

>>No offense, but that's unbiblical nonsense. You can't support it from the Scriptures.<<

Hebrews 11:30 By faith the walls of Jericho fell down, after they were compassed about seven days.

Hebrews 11:8 By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going.

Hebrews 11:27 By faith he left Egypt, not fearing the king's anger; he persevered because he saw him who is invisible.

Luke 17:19 And he said unto him, Arise, go thy way: thy faith hath made thee whole.

Matthew 9:22 But Jesus turned him about, and when he saw her, he said, Daughter, be of good comfort; thy faith hath made thee whole. And the woman was made whole from that hour.

Hebrews 11:31 By faith the prostitute Rahab, because she welcomed the spies, was not killed with those who were disobedient.

Hebrews 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.

Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

1 Corinthians 16:13 Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong.

2 Corinthians 5:6-7 So we are always of good courage. We know that while we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord, for we walk by faith, not by sight.

70 posted on 02/20/2015 8:58:18 AM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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To: Zuriel

The spirit has to be regenerated before any good can come out of man.

No man can reform himself by following the Lord’s commands for conversion. You don’t do works TO get saved, you do them as a result of being saved.

Paul was out killing people until Jesus knocked him off his horse and saved him. What good works did he have to his credit for conversion?

All our righteousness is filthy rags in God’s sight.


71 posted on 02/20/2015 9:04:00 AM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: metmom

That way they’ll be SURE of getting Truth


absolutely, that is a sure way of getting the truth. but, how can you be sure you UNDERSTAND the truth?
for example, a Presbyterian and Baptist both will claim to believe in sola scriptura, the Presbyterian will find infant baptism in the Scriptures, the Baptist doesn’t.
only one can be right, yet both will claim the Scriptures as their authority.

luckily, Acts 8 shows us God has provided the answer and a SURE way to get and understand the truth.


72 posted on 02/20/2015 9:05:25 AM PST by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: metmom
You're speaking of works without faith.

I'm talking about working faith, perfected faith, saving faith, fruitful faith, living faith.

Jesus said that there would be those who appealed to their works, even to the miraculous, and He will tell them that He NEVER KNEW THEM.
They were never even saved to begin with.


Yes, those people will be surprised by their condemnation. They call Jesus "Lord, Lord", but they don't obey Him. They do lots of works, but they don't obey Him.

This isn't like some recipe for mud, that calls for two ingredients: dirt and water. If Naaman had dipped four times instead of seven, would that have cleansed him? It would've been works, but not works of faith.

If Joshua and the Israelites had decided to get in an extra round of marching on day 1 so they could skip day 2, would the walls have fallen? No, because the marching would not have been of faith.

Similarly, those who are baptized "because it's a good thing to do" don't get their sins washed away, because it's not a work of faith. Those who do things commanded in the Bible, but do them for a reason other than God's reason, or in a way other than God's way, are not obeying God, because they're not acting in faith.
73 posted on 02/20/2015 9:10:41 AM PST by LearsFool ("Thou shouldst not have been old, till thou hadst been wise.")
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To: CynicalBear
Sure, I read your post. I even quoted from your post. Here again is what you said:

The answer to both of those is faith.

Those answers are unbiblical nonsense.
74 posted on 02/20/2015 9:12:43 AM PST by LearsFool ("Thou shouldst not have been old, till thou hadst been wise.")
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism
absolutely, that is a sure way of getting the truth. but, how can you be sure you UNDERSTAND the truth?

The Holy Spirit will guide us into all truth of Jesus lied when He said that.

Don't you believe the words of Jesus?

for example, a Presbyterian and Baptist both will claim to believe in sola scriptura, the Presbyterian will find infant baptism in the Scriptures, the Baptist doesn’t. only one can be right, yet both will claim the Scriptures as their authority.

Yup and someone has yet to give one example of an infant being baptized anywhere in the NT. It's built on supposition, just like the Catholic position.

luckily, Acts 8 shows us God has provided the answer and a SURE way to get and understand the truth.

Well, it's sure not the magisterium cause that's never even mentioned in the Bible.

And then you have the problem of who is going to interpret the magisterium.

The Catholic church can't even agree on it's own teachings, it changes doctrine and dogma from one council to another, and Catholics are all over the map about what they believe.

Having the catechism is no guarantee in the least of ensuring consistency and constancy of *the faith*.

Roman Catholicism, the church that never always changes.

75 posted on 02/20/2015 9:24:30 AM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: metmom

I’ve asked you these questions before, and you declined to answer. Let’s see whether you’ll answer them this time:

What caused the walls of Jericho to fall?
A. Faith
B. Marching
C. God’s power
D. All of the above
E. None of the above

Which element(s) was/were unnecessary?
A. Faith
B. Marching
C. God’s power
D. All of the above
E. None of the above


76 posted on 02/20/2015 9:46:16 AM PST by LearsFool ("Thou shouldst not have been old, till thou hadst been wise.")
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To: metmom

**The spirit has to be regenerated before any good can come out of man.**

If we are pointing out that good works, such as giving to the needy, helping the afflicted, etc. only happen by souls regenerated by God, then I know a couple of nice friendly athiests to introduce you to. Regeneration is this:

Romans 6:3; “Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?”
4. “Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death:....” (That’s certainly not Spirit baptism, because the Spirit is life.) “..that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the GLORY of the FATHER, even so we also should walk in newness of life.”
5 “For if we have been planted together in the LIKENESS of his death, we shall be also in the LIKENESS of his resurrection.”

**No man can reform himself by following the Lord’s commands for conversion.**

Is Acts 2:38 from heaven (the Lord’s commands for rebirth), or of men (following man-made works)? Do we hear it and obey it, or not?

“But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being THEN made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.” Rom. 6:17,18

Preaching salvation in Jesus Christ, apart from his instructions on conversion, is preaching a ‘hole’ gospel (something missing). The Son prayed to the Father that souls would “believe on me through their (the apostles) word.” Jn 17:20

This preaching began in Acts 2, culuminating in Peter responding to the request: “What shall we do?”. Then we see Peter enact the commissions (found in: Matt. 28:19; Mark 16:16; Luke 24:47; John 20:23) by saying: “..Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost”.


77 posted on 02/20/2015 11:31:02 AM PST by Zuriel (Acts 2:38,39....Do you believe it?)
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To: LearsFool
Salvation under the new covenant is by grace through faith in Christ.

Good works were prepared in advance to believers to walk in them.

Regeneration is what saves, not adding works to intellectual assent.

A person who accepts Christ on their deathbed, is as saved as the person who did it as a child and lived their entire lives in service and obedience to God.

Works are not mandatory for salvation, either before or after.

78 posted on 02/20/2015 11:36:08 AM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: trebb
See? I told you they couldn't answer those two questions.

To you, the answers are so simple as to make it seem a useless exercise. That's because the gospel is simple. It's so simple, in fact, that those who reject it are easy to spot with just a couple of simple questions. (Reminds me of Matt. 21:23-27.)

And isn't that how Jesus said it would be? The preaching of the gospel would sort people into two groups: the saved and the damned. And He told us how we can know who is in which group.
79 posted on 02/20/2015 12:40:31 PM PST by LearsFool ("Thou shouldst not have been old, till thou hadst been wise.")
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To: LearsFool; trebb; RnMomof7
In the case of Jericho, the obedience was marching. Why was marching obedience? Because God had commanded it. What would’ve happened if the Israelites had said, “We’re not going to march, we’re just going to have faith only”? That’s the question the “faith only” folks refuse to answer. They’ll never answer it because the answer exposes their false teaching. So no, I don’t think it’s a useless exercise. It exposes these false teachers, so that others can be on their guard lest their faith end up as dead as the devils’.

You must not read these threads very often if you think "faith only folks" refuse to answer the age-old question of works in salvation. It gets answered continually! The REAL false teaching comes from those who imagine the works they do contribute to their justification or that the sacrifice of Jesus Christ was insufficient to save us to the uttermost. No one denies that our actions demonstrate the kind of faith we have - that's what James is speaking to. When he asks, "Can faith save him?", he is so obviously talking about the brother who is naked and hungry and another says, "I'll pray for you! Have faith!.", and does nothing to help his brother in need. Those who insist James is implying our eternal salvation depends upon faith PLUS our good works, deny grace. They are fallen from grace, Paul said, who seek to be justified by their works.

All the examples you gave of the "heroes" of faith spoken of in the book of Hebrews were those who had genuine, saving faith and it showed in what they were willing to do IN faith. You cannot deny that Scripture repeatedly states that faith is what justifies and NOT works. Abraham was justified by faith and not by his deeds because deeds can never take away our sins. Only by the shedding of blood is there atonement - Jesus paid the penalty for our sins by His sacrifice and there is NOTHING we add to that. Our simple act of faith - receiving the gift of God which IS eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord - is what God requires and HE knows our hearts. Plenty of people fake it by acting religious and doing good deeds, but God sees the heart and knows without our deeds whether or not we have the kind of faith that saves us.

Genuine, life-changing faith WILL result in good deeds, but these deeds cannot and DO NOT save us. Once this truth finally dawns on us, we will never again question the Gospel.

80 posted on 02/20/2015 3:50:03 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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