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Church Unity in the First Three Centuries (Long)
Orthodox Outlet for Dogmatic Enquiries ^ | 2001 | Met. Iakovos Zizioulas

Posted on 02/16/2015 12:58:16 PM PST by NRx

Although this work is historical in its method and content, it is not a product of historical curiosity. At a time when church unity occupies an increasingly central place in theological study, the contribution of our theology is required not simply as an academic demand, but also a fundamental debt owed to the Church.

In order to fulfil the demand and pay the debt, our theology can no longer fall back on the sources of its own confessional riches. The gradual abandonment of the confessional mentality of past generations and the recognition of the need for our theology to be an expression not of one confession but of the one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church Herself, now directs the course of theological study towards the sources of the ancient undivided Church. A Church which, in spite of all the disputes and conflicts by which She was often shaken, was always well aware of what is meant by the catholic consciousness of the Church. This holds true, most especially for the study of the unity of the Church which aims to provide our divided Christian world with that supra-confessional thread which will help it to rediscover and actualize its unity through the midst of its various divisions.

(Excerpt) Read more at oodegr.co ...


TOPICS: Catholic; Ecumenism; Orthodox Christian; Theology
KEYWORDS: ecclesiology
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To: don-o

I’ll take time to read this more carefully after I have my Rehab Nap.

What +Iakovos says about in-DUH-viduals vs Persons: admirable. And central.


21 posted on 02/18/2015 11:01:18 AM PST by Mrs. Don-o ( "Remember, O man, that dust thou art, and unto dust thou shalt return.")
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To: don-o
IGNORE THE TROLLS. Do not reply. Ignore them.

I see your point.
22 posted on 02/18/2015 11:01:39 AM PST by NRx
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To: Mrs. Don-o

That was just in a footnote. His main thesis - the Bishop and the Eucharist as the ground for unity is meaty meat.

And the “person” aspect (ref three Persons in the Trinity) is is even more so.


23 posted on 02/18/2015 12:33:30 PM PST by don-o (He will not share His glory and He will NOT be mocked! Blessed be the name of the Lord forever!)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
Yea!!

You're back!!

Rest and don't overdo this stuff!

24 posted on 02/18/2015 3:01:29 PM PST by Elsie
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To: Elsie

Thank you my dear Elsie!


25 posted on 02/18/2015 3:35:05 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o (Bless the LORD, O my soul.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

You’ll lose a LOT of time; if you try to catchup on what gone on here; as it’s been quite lengthy.

Needless to say; it’s been merely the same ol’ stuff being recycled over and over: one can jump back in at any time and not miss much... ;^)


26 posted on 02/19/2015 4:58:27 AM PST by Elsie
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To: Elsie

:o)


27 posted on 02/19/2015 9:30:44 AM PST by Mrs. Don-o (For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost. - Luke 19:10)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
A young monk arrives at the monastery.
 
He is assigned to helping the other monks in copying the old canons and laws of the church, by hand.
He notices, however, that all of the monks are copying from copies, not from the original manuscript.
So the new monk goes to the Old Abbot to question this, pointing out that if someone made even a small error in the first copy, it would never be picked up!
In fact, that error would be continued in all of the subsequent copies.
"We have been copying from the copies for centuries, but you make a good point, my son."
He goes down into the dark caves under the monastery where the original manuscripts are held as archives, in a locked vault that hasn't been opened for hundreds of years. 
Hours go by and nobody sees the Old Abbot.
So the young monk gets worried and goes down to look for him. He sees the old monk banging his head against the wall and wailing. "We missed the R! We missed the R! We missed the bloody R!"
His forehead is all bloody and bruised and he is crying uncontrollably. The young monk asks the old Abbot, "What's wrong, father?"
With a choking voice, the old Abbot replies, "The word was...
'CELEBRATE!'"

28 posted on 02/20/2015 9:41:13 AM PST by Elsie
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To: Elsie

Heh.


29 posted on 02/20/2015 9:58:22 AM PST by Mrs. Don-o (For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost. - Luke 19:10)
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To: Elsie

26While they were eating, Jesus took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to his disciples, saying, “Take and eat; this is my body.”
27Then he took the cup, gave thanks and offered it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you. 28This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. 29I tell you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it anew with you in my Father’s kingdom.”
30When they had sung a hymn, they went out to the Mount of Olives. (Matthew 26)

This is the institution of the new covenant - the one predicted in Jeremiah and Ezekiel. Many were waiting for it, but none expected it from a suffering servant.

My point is that Jesus took part in these two Sacraments, and in no others. This - for me - makes them special.


30 posted on 02/21/2015 7:12:42 PM PST by impactplayer
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To: Elsie

These are the only two of the seven sacraments which Jesus himself took part in. The others are important, but we can lead a holy life without them. But these two are spelled out in scripture as part of holy life in Jesus.


31 posted on 02/21/2015 7:16:00 PM PST by impactplayer
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To: impactplayer; Elsie

So Jesus sinned against the law by eating blood and causing others to sin also?


32 posted on 02/21/2015 7:31:10 PM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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To: CynicalBear

This was the wine of the Passover - the third cup - the cup of redemption. And it would forever represent the “blood of the new covenant”. Blood was part of the old covenant as it delivered the first born from death. Now, this “blood of the new covenant” would deliver all who partake of it from death. I must agree that some take this too far (in my opinion) and describe this a literal blood. I think this is stretching a bit and - as you point out - in conflict with scripture. This is the cup of redemption - the “blood” of Jesus’sacrifice - which will forever replace the need or repeated blood sacrifices. We have now been Redeemed!


33 posted on 02/21/2015 8:02:14 PM PST by impactplayer
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To: impactplayer
My point is that Jesus took part in these two Sacraments, and in no others.

And ONE of them was a YEARLY meal of rememberance.

Not something that is done everytime you enter the church!

34 posted on 02/22/2015 1:33:24 AM PST by Elsie
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To: impactplayer
But these two are spelled out in scripture as part of holy life in Jesus.

Sorry; but the book indicates otherwise...



Acts 15

The Council at Jerusalem
 1 Certain people came down from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the believers: “Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved.” 2 This brought Paul and Barnabas into sharp dispute and debate with them. So Paul and Barnabas were appointed, along with some other believers, to go up to Jerusalem to see the apostles and elders about this question. 3 The church sent them on their way, and as they traveled through Phoenicia and Samaria, they told how the Gentiles had been converted. This news made all the believers very glad. 4 When they came to Jerusalem, they were welcomed by the church and the apostles and elders, to whom they reported everything God had done through them.

 5 Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses.”

 6 The apostles and elders met to consider this question. 7 After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9 He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. 10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? 11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”

 12 The whole assembly became silent as they listened to Barnabas and Paul telling about the signs and wonders God had done among the Gentiles through them. 13 When they finished, James spoke up. “Brothers,” he said, “listen to me. 14 Simon[a] has described to us how God first intervened to choose a people for his name from the Gentiles. 15 The words of the prophets are in agreement with this, as it is written:

 16 “‘After this I will return
   and rebuild David’s fallen tent.
Its ruins I will rebuild,
   and I will restore it,
17 that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord,
   even all the Gentiles who bear my name,
says the Lord, who does these things’[b]
 18 things known from long ago.[c]

 19 “It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. 20 Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. 21 For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.”

The Council’s Letter to Gentile Believers
 22 Then the apostles and elders, with the whole church, decided to choose some of their own men and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They chose Judas (called Barsabbas) and Silas, men who were leaders among the believers. 23 With them they sent the following letter:

   The apostles and elders, your brothers,

   To the Gentile believers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia:

   Greetings.

 24 We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said. 25 So we all agreed to choose some men and send them to you with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul— 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to confirm by word of mouth what we are writing. 28 It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: 29 You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.

   Farewell.

 30 So the men were sent off and went down to Antioch, where they gathered the church together and delivered the letter. 31 The people read it and were glad for its encouraging message. 32 Judas and Silas, who themselves were prophets, said much to encourage and strengthen the believers. 33 After spending some time there, they were sent off by the believers with the blessing of peace to return to those who had sent them. [34] [d] 35 But Paul and Barnabas remained in Antioch, where they and many others taught and preached the word of the Lord.

Disagreement Between Paul and Barnabas
 36 Some time later Paul said to Barnabas, “Let us go back and visit the believers in all the towns where we preached the word of the Lord and see how they are doing.” 37 Barnabas wanted to take John, also called Mark, with them, 38 but Paul did not think it wise to take him, because he had deserted them in Pamphylia and had not continued with them in the work. 39 They had such a sharp disagreement that they parted company. Barnabas took Mark and sailed for Cyprus, 40 but Paul chose Silas and left, commended by the believers to the grace of the Lord. 41 He went through Syria and Cilicia, strengthening the churches.
35 posted on 02/22/2015 1:34:45 AM PST by Elsie
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To: impactplayer
This was the wine of the Passover



Exodus 12 Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)

And the Lord said to Moses and Aaron in the land of Egypt:

This month shall be to you the beginning of months: it shall be the first in the months of the year.

Speak ye to the whole assembly of the children of Israel, and say to them: On the tenth day of this month let every man take a lamb by their families and houses.

But if the number be less than may suffice to eat the lamb, he shall take unto him his neighbour that joineth to his house, according to the number of souls which may be enough to eat the lamb.

And it shall be a lamb without blemish, a male, of one year: according to which rite also you shall take a kid.

And you shall keep it until the fourteenth day of this month: and the whole multitude of the children of Israel shall sacrifice it in the evening.

And they shall take of the blood thereof, and put it upon both the side posts, and on the upper door posts of the houses, wherein they shall eat it.

And they shall eat the flesh that night roasted at the fire, and unleavened bread with wild lettuce.

You shall not eat thereof any thing raw, nor boiled in water, but only roasted at the fire: you shall eat the head with the feet and entrails thereof.

10 Neither shall there remain any thing of it until morning. If there be any thing left, you shall burn it with fire.

11 And thus you shall eat it: you shall gird your reins, and you shall have shoes on your feet, holding staves in your hands, and you shall eat in haste: for it is the Phase (that is the Passage) of the Lord.

12 And I will pass through the land of Egypt that night, and will kill every firstborn in the land of Egypt both man and beast: and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgments: I am the Lord.

13 And the blood shall be unto you for a sign in the houses where you shall be: and I shall see the blood, and shall pass over you: and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you, when I shall strike the land of Egypt.

14 And this day shall be for a memorial to you: and you shall keep it a feast to the Lord in your generations with an everlasting observance.

15 Seven days shall you eat unleavened bread: in the first day there shall be no leaven in your houses: whosoever shall eat any thing leavened, from the first day until the seventh day, that soul shall perish out of Israel.

16 The first day shall be holy and solemn, and the seventh day shall be kept with the like solemnity: you shall do no work in them, except those things that belong to eating.

17 And you shall observe the feast of the unleavened bread: for in this same day I will bring forth your army out of the land of Egypt, and you shall keep this day in your generations by a perpetual observance.

18 The first month, the fourteenth day of the month in the evening, you shall eat unleavened bread, until the one and twentieth day of the same month in the evening.

19 Seven days there shall not be found any leaven in your houses: he that shall eat leavened bread, his soul shall perish out of the assembly of Israel, whether he be a stranger or born in the land.

20 You shall not eat any thing leavened: in all your habitations you shall eat unleavened bread.

21 And Moses called all the ancients of the children of Israel, and said to them: Go take a lamb by your families, and sacrifice the Phase.

22 And dip a bunch of hyssop in the blood that is at the door, and sprinkle the transom of the door therewith, and both the door cheeks: let none of you go out of the door of his house till morning.

23 For the Lord will pass through striking the Egyptians: and when he shall see the blood on the transom, and on both the posts, he will pass over the door of the house, and not suffer the destroyer to come into your houses and to hurt you.

24 Thou shalt keep this thing as a law for thee and thy children for ever.

25 And when you have entered into the land which the Lord will give you as he hath promised, you shall observe these ceremonies.

26 And when your children shall say to you: What is the meaning of this service?

27 You shall say to them: It is the victim of the passage of the Lord, when he passed over the houses of the children of Israel in Egypt, striking the Egyptians, and saving our houses. And the people bowing themselves, adored.

28 And the children of Israel going forth did as the Lord had commanded Moses and Aaron.

29 And it came to pass at midnight, the Lord slew every firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharao, who sat on his throne, unto the firstborn of the captive woman that was in the prison, and all the firstborn of cattle.

30 And Pharao arose in the night, and all his servants, and all Egypt: for there was not a house wherein there lay not one dead.

31 And Pharao calling Moses and Aaron, in the night, said: Arise and go forth from among my people, you and the children of Israel: go, sacrifice to the Lord as you say.

32 Your sheep and herds take along with you, as you demanded, and departing, bless me.

33 And the Egyptians pressed the people to go forth out of the land speedily, saying: We shall all die.

34 The people therefore took dough before it was leavened: and tying it in their cloaks, put it on their shoulders.

35 And the children of Israel did as Moses had commanded: and they asked of the Egyptians vessels of silver and gold, and very much raiment.

36 And the Lord gave favour to the people in the sight of the Egyptians, so that they lent unto them: and they stripped the Egyptians.

37 And the children of Israel set forward from Ramesse to Socoth, being about six hundred thousand men on foot, beside children.

38 And a mixed multitude without number went up also with them, sheep and herds and beasts of divers kinds, exceeding many.

39 And they baked the meal, which a little before they had brought out of Egypt, in dough: and they made earth cakes unleavened: for it could not be leavened, the Egyptians pressing them to depart, and not suffering them to make any stay: neither did they think of preparing any meat.

40 And the abode of the children of Israel that they made in Egypt, was four hundred and thirty years.

41 Which being expired, the same day all the army of the Lord went forth out of the land of Egypt.

42 This is the observable night of the Lord, when he brought them forth out of the land of Egypt: this night all the children of Israel must observe in their generations.

43 And the Lord said to Moses and Aaron: This is the service of the Phase: No foreigner shall eat of it.

44 But every bought servant shall be circumcised, and so shall eat.

45 The stranger and the hireling shall not eat thereof.

46 In one house shall it be eaten, neither shall you carry forth of the flesh thereof out of the house, neither shall you break a bone thereof.

47 All the assembly of the children of Israel shall keep it.

48 And if any stranger be willing to dwell among you, and to keep the Phase of the Lord, all his males shall first be circumcised, and then shall he celebrate it according to the manner: and he shall be as he that is born in the land: but if any man be uncircumcised, he shall not eat thereof.

49 The same law shall be to him that is born in the land, and to the proselyte that sojourneth with you.

50 And all the children of Israel did as the Lord had commanded Moses and Aaron.

51 And the same day the Lord brought forth the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt by their companies.

36 posted on 02/22/2015 1:41:43 AM PST by Elsie
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To: Elsie

Then why did Jesus break bread with his friends after his walk to Emmaus? (Luke 21:13) As I read it, this was to be a part of ever meal - not just in church. But that’s just me.


37 posted on 02/22/2015 5:54:26 AM PST by impactplayer
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To: Elsie

Jesus was Baptized by John, and He instituted Communion as a symbol - perhaps seal is a better word - of His new Covenant. The early Christians Baptized all who professed Christ and assembled on the first day of the week to be in Communion with our Lord. This sets these two sacraments above the others in importance for our walk of faith.


38 posted on 02/22/2015 5:59:14 AM PST by impactplayer
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To: impactplayer

Everyone eats everyday.

(Most of us anyway...)


39 posted on 02/22/2015 1:09:52 PM PST by Elsie
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To: impactplayer
Jesus was Baptized by John, and He instituted Communion as a symbol - perhaps seal is a better word - of His new Covenant.

Oh?

Where is that documented?

Passover was pretty well established in Exodus chapter 12.

40 posted on 02/22/2015 1:11:00 PM PST by Elsie
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