Replies

" Oh, so Augustine was bang on when it came to Grace, but was an idolater? Dang, Calvin was more daft than I thought."

Like most of the "fathers", sometimes he was right and sometimes he was wrong.

"If I do nothing else this thread I'm not going let this unmitigated lie masquerade as a historical fact. If you make a claim like this you back it up with primary sources."

If your truth claim is that it is a lie, prove it. Go to the entire book Calvin wrote - linked in the article - and go to his sources.

"When exactly was paganism incorporated? I want dates. I want names. I want places. I want 4th century authors who describe this process at work. "

Do you want to be spoon-fed too? Go to the primary source quoted and read.

It said above that Calvin based his argument on his excellent knowledge (cough cough) of Church history. As well he should, because he sure as shootin' wasn't there.

So why in Sam Hill do I have to read Calvin quoting the Fathers, when I can read the Fathers themselves? What could a guy born in 1509 add to the discussion except his own opinion?

I reiterate: if this pagan corruption happened in the 300s, find me someone who was there and saw it happen.