Pagan Saints

The Cripplegate ^ | July 19,2012 | Nathan Busenitz

[RnMomof7]

So it seems

[Arthur McGowan]

Ephesus, for one.

[Arthur McGowan]

It is an open question whether Mary died or not.

[Arthur McGowan]

Tell me, did I ever assert that nobody ever wrote anything?

What conceivable point are you trying to make by assembling a bunch of Scripture verses that remind us that PEOPLE WROTE STUFF?

[Resettozero]

And, of course, you HONORED that advice; right?

There weren't but a handful of them at my first 2-year college but the few that were there were more than a handful.

Actually, I did honor his advice, but it was by default because the two that interested me both were rich and from Connecticut. Nothing much in common with me. (Why were they even THERE?)

[Resettozero]

It is an open question whether Mary died or not.

Only to you and other RCs with vested interests in the RCC.

Every last one of those associates of Jesus died the first death, just as promised also to you and me.

[Resettozero]

Please respond to my post 250 to you.

Thank you for not ignoring it.

R2z

[CynicalBear]

>>Saint Luke tells us that MARY was his source for the account of Jesus’ birth: “Mary pondered all these things in her heart.”<<

That doesn't say "Mary told him" or that she "was his source". In fact, your statement counters what Jesus said.

John 14:26 But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

>>The notion that Mary was “unimportant” and that nobody even cared where she lived is preposterous.<<

So show us any writing or accounts of her life after Pentecost.

>>You are stuffed so full of anti-Mary propaganda that you are willing to contradict the gospels.<<

I just showed where you contradicted the gospels. Your assertion that Luke said Mary was his source in simply injecting something that isn't there.

>>In St. John’s gospel, Jesus is FOUNDING THE CHURCH,<<

No, it says He will build His ekklēsian, those "called out". If you think that word means "church" as the Catholic Church would have you believe then you have to also think any meeting of those "called out" for meeting of government or whatever was also the "church". A little study of what the word "ekkelesia" means and how it was used during that time could save themselves the embarrassment off comments about the "church" and what Christ said He would build.

>>He gives Mary to John (and therefore to the whole Church) as mother.<<

So now John symbolizes the church? That's simply an injection that isn't there. Besides, scripture says that the "Jerusalem which is above is the mother of us all" not Mary.

As for the rest of your post, I do believe you have been warned about raising the name of he who will not be mentioned on this site. Like I said, the Catholic Church cannot definitively state where Mary died as they don't know where she was actually living. There is simply no word of her after Pentecost. Making things up doesn't change that fact.

[Resettozero]

POST NUMBER CORRECTION...

Please respond to my post 350 to you.

Thank you for not ignoring it.

R2z

[CynicalBear]

>>Since sola scriptura is mentioned NOWHERE in the New Testament, sola scriptura is a man-made doctrine.<<

Just like your assumption of Mary? Or maybe recommendations to pray to saints to get better reception? Or maybe the Jesus would send Mary as His advocate? Or maybe even the trinity for that matter.

[PeterPrinciple]

Many Christians here, including myself, have received a knowledge of WHO Jesus of Nazareth really is from reading the Gospels and other New Testament books in addition to the Old Testament books compiled in the Holy Bible.

Not only have I learned and ACCEPTED that Jesus of Nazareth is the Christ and the Son of the Living God via Scripture and hearing and responding to the foolishness of the preaching the Cross, I also have a personal intimate daily relationship with Him in Spirit and via His Written Word and have been given the Seal that promises me that I am known in Christ as well.

No believer in Lord Jesus Christ needs Rome or any other religious system to be a Christian and to be saved from the second death and eternal separation from Almighty God and to have fellowship with the saints here and now.

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well said...............

[CynicalBear]

>>Ephesus, for one.<<

Says who and what's their source proof? Wait....I think I found it.

"The house was discovered in the 19th century by following the descriptions in the reported visions of Blessed Anne Catherine Emmerich (1774–1824)"

On, and there is this. "The Catholic Church has never pronounced in favour or against the authenticity of the house."

Well there you have it. The concrete evidence!!! Right?

[CynicalBear]

>>It is an open question whether Mary died or not.<<

So they don't talk about "the dormition of Mary"?

[PeterPrinciple]

To reiterate: Jewish tradition allowed for the recognition of material relics as holy (see above biblical proof texts) and the early Christians continued the practice.

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God also allowed divorce, but it was a recognition of our hearts, not HIS desires......................

[PeterPrinciple]

To reiterate: Jewish tradition allowed for the recognition of material relics as holy (see above biblical proof texts) and the early Christians continued the practice.

---

I am partially in error in my prior post. Jewish TRADITION allowed for divorce, but God has always hated divorce. Do you think RC traditions are anymore trustworthy than Jewish tradition?

He has always hated graven images and idols also. Did you ever catch that in the Old testament? Relics are man made for mans purposes.

Why would God Never allow any earthly image of him?

He is a jealous God. Anything that distracts from Him is an idol.

Why would you rely on traditions when you have the primary source, the Bible, available to you.

Why would you pray to Mary when God invites you to speak with him as Father?

[metmom]

He gives Mary to John (and therefore to the whole Church) as mother.

Now there's an ASSUMPTION about Mary that has no basis either.

There's simply nothing in the context that indicates that Jesus meant that.

[metmom]

The absence of any relics of Mary is an ANOMALY. It sticks out like a sore thumb. Given the early Christians’ devotion to the relics of all those who were close to Jesus on earth, the absence of relics of Mary demands an explanation.

The need to have no relics of Mary to *prove* her *assumption* is plenty enough reason to hide them.

if there were relics of Mary, it would blow the whole assumption of Mary schtick to pieces.

As long as the church wants to perpetuate that myth, then no relics will ever be found.

Thus, in a Catholic's eyes, making that *proof* that Mary was assumed.

It's not merely circular logic, it's a black hole of logic from which there is no hope of reason ever escaping.

[metmom]

It is just bizarre to posit (gratuitously, of course) that the early Christians, who kept the relics of the apostles and tens of thousands of martyrs, just let Mary shuffle off to croak in an alley somewhere. It’s an insane notion born of extreme bigotry.

And CB stated that just where?

Seems to me that HE'S not the one who thought of it.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

“Since sola scriptura is mentioned NOWHERE in the New Testament, sola scriptura is a man-made doctrine. It is unscriptural. It is self-contradictory, precisely because it doesn’t come from Scripture.”

Aren’t you a self-disclosed roman priest???

How can someone claiming to be a priest be so unfamiliar with:

Understanding what sola scriptura means?
Understanding what the Scriptures say about themselves?
Basic logic?

[Mark17]

It’s amazing to me that Catholics even ask those questions. Do they not read scripture for themselves at all?

I don't know about all of them, but I did not read it when I was a catholic. That catholic family Bible just gathered dust.