Posted on 01/21/2015 4:47:04 PM PST by RnMomof7
That is correct. Christ founded an ekklesia, those called out by God. The concept of the "church" as the Catholic Church teaches is not found in scripture.
Balderdash, we don’t know any of that. It is an invented story that the Reformers concocted to justify their sins of schism and heresy.
Notice one thing Calvin apparently didn’t mention in his treatise on relics? The handkerchiefs of St. Paul from Acts 19:12. And if you read his first chapters you will notice they are heavy on declarations of opinion, not so heavy on quotations to back his arguments up.
Remember, Tertullian scoffed at incense and birthdays because they were pagan. St. Monica was told that bringing food to the dead was superstitious and so she stopped doing it. This was a hot-button issue.
And then some unnamed persons at some vague undefined time introduce *idolatrous worship* into the Church across the whole world.....and no one notices? No one objects? It just slides gently under the radar and fools everyone around the world...for 1000 years?
No, but believers have not yet been raised. Show one instance of the apostles praying to those departed from this earth. Paul said to "boldly go before the throne" of the Father not some dead saint.
Hebrews 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.
”It is impossible to save one’s soul without devotion to Mary and without her protection.” -Saint Anselm, Archbishop and Doctor of the Church, 1033-1109 AD
“The greatest saints, those richest in grace and virtue will be the most assiduous in praying to the most Blessed Virgin, looking up to her as the perfect model to imitate and as a powerful helper to assist them.” -Saint Louis Marie de Montfort, 1673-1716 AD
The Saints assert that anyone who prays to the Mother of God in time of temptation will be preserved from sin, and that whoever approaches her with perfect trust throughout his life will surely be saved.
-St. Maximilian Mary Kolbe
Your history proves different.
Not true since you don’t take into account the history of the Early Church when the first martyrs died.
Yep. It happened before John died.
Revelation 2:14 Nevertheless, I have a few things against you: There are some among you who hold to the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to entice the Israelites to sin so that they ate food sacrificed to idols and committed sexual immorality.
And it's still part of the Catholic Church.
The proof is simply the unbroken line of teaching all the way back to the Apostles. You reject this... so there you go.
As for the teaching on the Assumption... Why stop there? Have fun.
You haven't yet proven that what the Catholic Church teaches today is the same as what the apostles taught. Are you simply going on faith in the men of the Catholic Church?
Because you don’t believe in Holy Tradition. The experiences that were passed on person to person yet are not written down in the Bible.
Show where the apostles only called those who had left this earth saints like the Catholic Church does.
I can get a little fixated when people dodge and weave.
Paul's prior knowledge remained intact but his perspective had drastically and completely changed from his former beliefs of his keeping the Hebrew laws in order to gain acceptance with God.
Thank you. THAT is the point. St Paul and all of the Apostles taught from the perspective of their Jewish tradition. Jesus didn't abolish the Law, He fulfilled it. It's not that it wasn't holy and of God, just that it was fulfilled and it's strictures were no longer required. Too many people throw the baby out with the bathwater. There is a Jewish history. It is not evil. It is the parent to our own faith. What remained was the essence of the Law which is love of God and man. St Paul was not ashamed to proclaim himself a Pharisee because of his belief in the resurrection. We may no longer be under the strictures of the Mosaic Law... but that doesn't mean it wasn't still instructive for our faith in God and His ways.
Matthew 5:17-21 (NASB Strong’s Bible Text)
17 “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18 For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 “For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.
Personal Relationships
21 “You have heard that the ancients were told, ‘You shall not commit murder’ and ‘Whoever commits murder shall be liable to the court.’
Okay. Thanks. Yours and my perspectives are different on this and I hear what is yours.
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>> “I do not think Calvin was a big fan of the Catholic Church.” <<
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Thank God!
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Men such as St Polykarp (direct disciple of St John), St Irenaeus, St Thomas Aquinas, St Augustine, St John Chrysostom, St Athanasius, St Francis of Assisi, Pope St Gregory, St Ambrose, et al? Yes.
Unless you can demonstrate their humility and deep devotion to the truths of the Church, you will have a hard time taking me from their tutelage.
There's a game people play where they tell a story from person to person and see what the last person knows the story to be. Most laugh at how different that story is at the end. Ever play it?
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