Posted on 12/16/2014 4:38:29 PM PST by Colofornian
Sorrowful, indeed. (Good way to phrase the above)
The ELCA is worse in at least one regard: For a LONG time, their insurance abortion plans have paid for the abortions of their female clergy & other full-time benefits-based staffers.
The vast majority of churches/denominations in general do not do enough to stop abortion.
It’s what I’ve been harping about and what I’ll keep harping about until I’m heard.
Did you not read my one thread?....
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/3237598/posts
I mean READ IT....halfway down. When Abby is talking about women in her abortion clinic. What kind of women, what they were doing.. Asking clinic workers to pray with them, they were reading/holding Bibles in the waiting room. What does that sound like to you? Sounds like to me our churches/denominations somehow lack something in the teaching of pro life values.
“feel through personal prayer”
Hey, if “feeling through personal prayer” is good enough to tell you to toss out the Bible and believe in Joey Smith’s tall tales, then it must be good enough to approve your abortion too.
My thoughts exactly! (Although you framed this much better...and more succinctly...than I would have)
Well, that’s the natural maternal instinct, but it isn’t universal, even in humans. Unfortunately.
Also, as humans, we have the ability to override our instincts pretty easily, for good or for bad.
So Mormons don’t want babies to inhabit developmentally disabled planets?
Morgana, churches generally do not address abortion other than "saying the right things" in statements that are kept on dusty shelves.
Pro-life worldviews are rarely addressed...except in obligatory references made in sermons the third week of each January. Having checked off the checklist, they move on to "other subjects."
As for who is getting abortions, I meant to post something similar to the following on that thread you referenced, but didn't get around to it.
The church community has known for quite a while WHO is getting these abortions.
Back in the 1980s George Grant wrote a book on Planned Parenthood called GRAND ILLUSIONS: The Legacy of Planned Parenthood...
He references how pro-lifers found thousands of abortion documents in a Houston, TX abortuary dumpster.
A sampling of these "medical" records revealed abortion clients...and the THEN med records would ask for info like "name of church" and "pastor" or priest...A very high % of them named BOTH a specific church and a specific church leader.
Then pro-life activist Gregg Cunningham, a former Pennsylvania state legislator, discovered the same kind of info in his research.
“He references how pro-lifers found thousands of abortion documents in a Houston, TX abortuary dumpster.
A sampling of these “medical” records revealed abortion clients...and the THEN med records would ask for info like “name of church” and “pastor” or priest...A very high % of them named BOTH a specific church and a specific church leader. “
Oh the things abortion clinics throw away. Medical records are to be shredded. Not that abortion clinic follow rules. Sometimes however it works for our favor. Case in point. I’ve been trying to tell FReers hers just that!
Oh but “Not my church” and “not the women in my church”. DENY DENY DENY.
Well guess what. It is the women in your church. It is more than likely a woman you know. A woman you need to pray for.
In 2012
78 percent of the Mormons voted republican.
59 percent of white Catholics voted republican
69 percent of white protestants voted republican.
It is the republicans, not the democrats that are against murdering babies.
That says more than any thing else to me.
So what? Lots of both pro-aborts AND pro-lifers voted for the pro-abort, Mitt Romney.
And I'd say Mormons voted for pro-abort Romney about 4-to-1 in 2012 & even much HIGHER ratio-wise in the 2008 and 2012 primaries.
In fact, I'd go so far to say...
...since I proved in MANY MANY posts in previous years that Mormon Republicans were voting as high as 92-96% for the pro-abort Romney in the 2008 primaries in certain Western states...
...that it was EXACTLY because so many so-called "pro-life" Mormons (& other Republicans) voted for the pro-abort Romney early on...
...that it gave a very LONG shelf life to Romney...
...resulting in the 2012 POTUS loss to a very weak candidate...
...as some pro-lifers didn't want to vote for a pro-abort...
...and either voted third party or didn't vote at all for the POTUS in 2012.
Tell us again why you think voting for an open pro-abort who also gave us an early state version of Obamacare is so ennobling???
Are you so entrenched in a given party that you'll vote for a pro-abort because he won't favor policies that kill as many as the other pro-abort?
Just curious has the Pope/Vatican issued a press release condemning those politicians and advised his Priests not to give Communion to them?
The Catholic Church does seem to be the only church that does not put some caveat on abortion. Even the Southern Baptists okay it if the mother’s life is at peril.
http://www.pewforum.org/2013/01/16/religious-groups-official-positions-on-abortion/
Are you so entrenched in a given party that you’ll vote for a pro-abort because he won’t favor policies that kill as many as the other pro-abort?
‘Is the Catholic Church the ONLY institution on God’s good earth against abortion’.
Yes. Most protestants that identify as republicans are for selective abortion. Only Catholics that practice the faith are against all abortion. There are some evangelicals that don’t believe in abortion for any type but most take the Morman stance. The official Republican Party Platform also believes in killing the child for the sins of the father.
Well I DO wish that churches that mention the life exception would elaborate a bit on that.
#1...I really can't think of ANY cases where an abortion is somehow going to be "therapeutic" to a mom's health.
The baby, after all, isn't a disease and isn't usually "assisting" any disease in process.
People need to understand that many times we're talking about situations where if there was to be an abortion taking place, it's too early for the baby to be a preemie and it's too late than for anything other than a late-term abortion where they deliver the baby -- all but the head -- and then suck the brains out.
Listen if the baby can be delivered all but the head minus harm to the Mom...then the baby can be delivered 100%!!!!!!!
#2 There's really NOT very many circumstances where an abortion is medically necessary. There is ONE case for sure: Ectopic pregnancies.
Preborns cannot survive an ectopic pregnancy. The death rate in these cases is at least one per pregnancy -- the baby for sure. AND...the baby will also take the mom's life, if not aborted.
That is about the only "for sure" abortion as 'life-defense' that I know of...
I don't believe cancer qualifies.
A good (enough) TV movie (ABC) a while back that focused on this was "A Case for Life" -- where the pro-life mom with cancer (played by Valerie Bertinelli) opposed her family's lobbying for her to abort the baby.
Anyway, bottom line, when churches say "life in peril" they should mention real-life situations like ectopic pregnancies ... and not leave it up to the prognostic skills of physicians, many of whom are pro-aborts in mentalityand are looking for reasons to abort....
You know when there was an argument about who the REAL mom was of a baby, Solomon advised cutting the babe in half to "compromise" on the situation.
Of course, he was only testing to see who the REAL mom was.
And that was the one who valued the life of the baby, even if she had to give the baby away.
If you have a choice between...
...(a) justice: the real Mom getting to keep her baby;
...(b) injustice: the counterfeit Mom stealing the baby, but the baby living;
...and (c) The seemingly first-glance "lesser evil" of avoiding the injustice of allowing a counterfeit Mom to steal the entire baby, you soon realize that the compromise position is 100% morally bankrupt.
IoW, its "bottom line" is that it only results in a dead baby!
Voting for a pro-abort this time only emboldens the RINOs to keep feeding you pro-aborts your entire voting life.
And, no, I didn't vote for EITHER pro-abort! (I do need to face God one day; I'd prefer NOT to explain to Him why I thought warfare upon the womb was something I politically sanctioned)
But I notice you didn't answer my question: Why is it you assume that voting Republican -- a Republican pro-abort -- is such an ennobling proposition and something Mormon voters (& others) should get some kind of gold star from you for...???
(I expect an answer)
I wish it were that simple.
The Democrats, at the national level, have been completely taken over by the pro-death cabal. The few pro-life Democrats that still remain are completely marginalized, and there are virtually none in office beyond the state legislature level.
There are many Republicans who are strongly pro-life. There are many who give lip service to the pro-life cause to get votes from pro-lifers, but that's the extent of their "conviction".
But there's a sizeable contingent of Republicans who are vigorously pro-death, and they aren't all recognizable as liberals. Barry Goldwater was strongly pro-abortion (his wife was a big wheel in PP in AZ)! The Nixon administration started pushing birth control and abortion in the Third World as an official policy position; google "NSSM200" for more information.
“It is the republicans, not the democrats that are against murdering babies.”
Last I checked it’s the Christians who are suppose to be against murdering babies.
Now I don’t know about you all but in my Democrat state Christians do go to church on Sunday, Sunday night and Wednesday night. So you tell me why more is not being done by these Democrat Christians to stop abortion. Same for the Republican ones who attend church every week.
This is not a political issue (well it is but that is beside the point) this is a religious/moral one. One that Christians need to be taking up in their churches.
See post #27
i have to declare my own bias before going on here. i’ve talked to enough people—whom i’ve taken to be true Christians—in *different* denominations, who attend different buildings, to form my belief that they are all of one mind with regard to the murder of the unborn. most are inveterate readers and even scholars of the Bible and many if not all site God through Jeremiah as an unbreakable reason why they couldn’t take unborn life:
“Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.”
so yes, your annecdote is no shock given the numbers in the survey you posted a few days ago (and the rough correspondence to those of the US census breakdown of christian religious denominations).
BUT the attack here, in my opinion, is not on those cafeteria catholics, or sunday protestants, etc., it is the use of the label “christian” to paint those truely living in the Spirit with a broad brush; this may be another subtle attack, butressed by statistical lying, on the true Body of Christ, which is most assuredly *not* the so called “Church” or collections of buildings or people labelling themselves a certain denomination based on family or ethnic history. the Body *does* defend the unborn and any attack on that Body, even indirectly, i claim, may even advance the cause of the satanic abortion industry we’re all trying to end. in fact,
this could be an underlying motivation of this whole meme (i.e., what i’ll call the “hypocritical christian” study). statistical surveys, psychological, and sociological studies are the main lying tools of the left and satan for good reason, people don’t usually know enough about statistical theory to see through them.
God bless and keep up the good work.
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