Posted on 12/15/2014 9:12:57 AM PST by SeekAndFind
Usually, when the Bible uses an euphemism, it is talking about some form of sexual activity. Odds are, it is possible that he molested or raped Noah.
Leviticus was well after Noah. So how would they know incest was a sin? The same goes for Sodom & Gomorrah, those people weren’t given “The Law”
Just playing Devil’s Advocate!
Today I tend to think of Ham’s counterparts as either dreadfully opposed to bacon or gleeful over sexual immorality or both.
Ham put some shaving cream in the sleeping Noah’s hand then tickled Noah’s nose.........well, you know what happened next.
There were a lot of things that were “known” before they were delineated in Leviticus. Sacrifices were given, by Abel and Cain, and they knew which were correct and which were not. Leviticus was just putting them down so that later people, with short memories, would know them also.
I had actually never thought about the possibility of taking Noah’s wife to become leader and having a child. It fits with other Biblical stories, i.e. Abishag and Adonijah.
This narrative actually fits the story, the punishment and the resulting problems extremely well.
There are some things that are counter-intuitive to morality even without the Law engraved in stone.
This is why there are such things as the “Noachide Laws”, the code of Hammurabi, and the sayings of Confucius.
Certain things are just nasty, and even pagans are aware.
But if you agree with Jesus that the First Five Books were all written by Moses, it would make sense that he would use the same euphemisms in Genesis and Leviticus to describe the same type of act.
The event in Genesis was reported by Moses, who was writing at the time of the giving of the Law. So, he would use the euphemisms current at that time, not at the time of Noah.
Also, word definitions have changed and been lost over time. "Gay" now days has almost lost it's meaning of happiness. See how fast that word has changed meaning so imagine over the course of 2000 years. Then there's the problem that some meanings in one language don't translate well into another language.
Indeed.
Forget all the sexual molestation incest theories. There is a simpler explanation.
Old Testament priests and prophets had priestly garbs. Like Josephs Coat of Many “colors” is more correctly translated cots of many patterns/symbols. Symbolic clothes and garments are found throughout the Old Testament to indicate authority from God. Joseph’s brothers were mad because his dad passed on the priestly robes to the younger son instead of rightful older. (And naively he bragged about ruling them in his dreams).
Same with Noah. He wore the priestly robes of a prophet. Ham took them unto himself, taking the symbol of Noah’s priesthood authority. Not his actual authority of course but Ham thought he could usurp his dad and rule over his siblings apparently. Noah woke and cursed Ham’s descendants to not hold the priesthood.
Incidentally, it was Ham’s daughter Egytus who discovered Egypt. The religion of their descendants and the pharaohs and their tombs have many biblical and Christian temple parallels. So even though they didn’t have the priesthood or authority they tried to recreate some of the symbols. A fallen pattern of the true priesthood.
I’m thinking it was dipping Noah’s hand in a bowl of warm water.
The Greek Septuagint presents several clues:
???Guessing because these passages were all orally transmitted at first, not written down til later : viz a sound play on words-
23.ἱμάτιον =long flowing outer garment , play on ‘ἱμάτiον” = raiment, sound play Arabic root rey= king
23. συνεκάλυψαν = covered together
23. ὀπισθοφανῶς = tertiary derivative of reverse side of a papyrus roll, not written on [reference to Egypt?]
24. πρόσωπον = to show special favor [“face”]- used when speaking of God
23. λαβόντες = sound play on word “laban = milk [land of milk and honey [symbol of pharaohs] Lebanon named after Laban?
dunno nothin
Weird stuff. Occam’s Razor applies here like everywhere else in the Bible.
The underlying Hebrew of the passage reads far different than the modern translations. Ham saw his father nude, went out and bragged to his brothers that he’d seen his father nude, his brothers covered their father’s nakedness in a respectful manner, Noah woke up and cursed Canaan because the sins of the father at that time were visited on the sons unto several generations:
Exo 34:7 Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children’s children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.
Just as Adam’s children had to intermarry, so did Noah’s grandchildren have to intermarry. There was nobody else around.
Sodom and Gomorrah were violating God’s natural law. They became depraved rutting animals, and paid the just price for it.
Could very well have been..Obviously the great religious debaters haven't thought of that one.....LOL!
RE: Noah woke up and cursed Canaan because the sins of the father at that time were visited on the sons unto several generations:
I wouldn’t do what my father did if he did something wrong. That’s how I would feel if my grandpa cursed me for something I did not do. Just saying...
Ham saw his fathers nakedness, Noah cursed Canaan which could mean that he was the culprit that uncovered Noah.
24- So Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done to him, Since Ham was not the younger son but next to the oldest it could be that he was talking about Canaan.
Most likely just a prank and nothing more.
I bet he put his hand in a bowl of warm water...
Or put shaving cream in his hand and tickle his face with a feather...
18 And the sons of Noah, that went forth of the ark, were Shem, and Ham, and Japheth: and Ham is the father of Canaan.
19 These are the three sons of Noah: and of them was the whole earth overspread.
20 And Noah began to be an husbandman, and he planted a vineyard:
21 And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent.
22 And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without.
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