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To: redleghunter
Revelation 5:8, where John depicts the saints in heaven offering our prayers to God under the form of "golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints."

I am not so certain that this will satisfy you. I am not certain that I want to go further down this road. I never knew that there were people who think that they departed relatives are dead. That is new to me and I find it, well, sad.

1,844 posted on 12/18/2014 10:28:18 AM PST by defconw (If not now, WHEN?)
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To: defconw; metmom; boatbums; CynicalBear; daniel1212; Elsie
Revelation 5:8, where John depicts the saints in heaven offering our prayers to God under the form of "golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints."

The same Book of Revelation in which Roman Catholics tell us is full of symbols/allegory and should not be taken literally?

Revelation 5:

8 Now when He had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each having a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.

The four living creatures and the 24 elders fell down before the Lamb, each having...and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. So the prayers are of the saints. Saints would be those who are in Christ Jesus, not the later understanding of Roman Catholics. So the passage is not saying people offer the prayers to saints or through saints but of saints. There is a significant difference.

And if we are to take this eisegesis of the passage as presented, then there are only 24 'saints' before the throne of God in Heaven, and four living creatures. So which ordained Roman Catholic saints would that be so Catholics can focus on the ones which can only hear or present prayers?

1,852 posted on 12/18/2014 10:52:04 AM PST by redleghunter (But let your word 'yes be 'yes,' and your 'no be 'no.' Anything more than this is from the evil one.)
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To: defconw; redleghunter; metmom; boatbums; MamaB; Elsie; ADSUM
>>Revelation 5:8, where John depicts the saints in heaven offering our prayers to God under the form of "golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints."<<

whoooaaaa there. Who is offering the prayers? Let's look.

Revelation 5:8 And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of God's people.

It's the four beasts and the 24 elders who have the bowls full of incense being offered to God. The incense are the prayers of the people. Those are NOT your so called saints offering those prayers. Nor are they the prayers of your so called saints. The Greek word used there is hagios which means "set apart for God" which every believer is.

Now there is much speculation about who those 24 elders are. Not ONE of them is that they are a group of some dedicated "saints" decided on by the Catholic Church. The best I have seen is to look at the "elders" of the chosen people of God. Let's look at that list of "elders".

1. Adam
2. Abel - though killed he was the chosen one.
3. Seth
4. Enosh
5. Cainan
6. Mahalalel
7. Jared
8. Enoch
9. Methuselah
10. Lamech
11. Noah
12. Shem
13. Arphaxad
14. Cainan
15. Shelah
16. Eber
17. Peleg
18. Reu
19. Serug
20. Nahor
21. Terah
22. Abraham
23. Isaac
24. Jacob

We find that List in Luke 3:

34 Jacob, the son of Isaac, the son of Abraham, the son of Terah, the son of Nahor, the son of Serug, the son of Reu, the son of Peleg, the son of Eber, the son of Shelah, the son of Cainan, the son of Arphaxad, the son of Shem, the son of Noah, the son of Lamech, the son of Methuselah, the son of Enoch, the son of Jared, the son of Mahalalel, the son of Kenan, the son of Enosh, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.

Stop with Jacob because he is the elder of all of the twelve tribes of Israel. All believers are grafted into that "vine" whose root is in God.

1,872 posted on 12/18/2014 12:51:14 PM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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