Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: ealgeone; Salvation; NYer

Another strawman Catholic-bashing thread, hidden as specious argumentation.

We should probably just schedule these instead of having them just pop up every few weeks (for how many YEARS?) just for convenience.


10 posted on 12/14/2014 12:09:59 PM PST by freedumb2003 (AGW: Settled Science? If so, there would only be one model and it would agree with measurements)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]


To: freedumb2003

True. I keep wondering about what Jesus is thinking when somebody disses his momma.


13 posted on 12/14/2014 12:11:50 PM PST by Slyfox (To put on the mind of George Washington read ALL of Deuteronomy 28, then read his Farewell Address)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies ]

To: freedumb2003
As a former Catholic, I agree with you. It appears this post has an intention to hurt those who are committed to their Catholic faith. Please don't let it. Heaven awaits all who have the belief in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. The rest is just argument for those wishing to debate the lesser issues. Nothing separates us from the love of God that comes to us through the Lord, Jesus Christ. Jesus won't ever let us go, no matter what. Catholics and protestants will share heaven.

Freedum, please forgive the ignorance of those who have no idea of the hurt they inflict on others with these debates. We have been far too hard on each other. I thank God that He looks on the heart of those who believe.

44 posted on 12/14/2014 12:46:28 PM PST by scottiemom (As Texas public school teacher, I highly recommend private school)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies ]

To: freedumb2003

Its endless on this web site.


49 posted on 12/14/2014 12:51:11 PM PST by warsaw44
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies ]

To: freedumb2003; ealgeone; Salvation; 353FMG; SumProVita; Grateful2God
Another strawman Catholic-bashing thread, hidden as specious argumentation.

The thread opens with: "The reason for this article is to determine.....", yet there is no link to any article. This is a vanity post with only one objective, to attack Catholics. It is replete with a total misunderstanding of the term "worship"; hence the ignorant attack.

Catholics do not worship anyone but God. The term "worship" was used in the same way in the Bible that it used to be used in English. It could cover both the adoration given to God alone and the honor that is to be shown to certain human beings. In Hebrew, the term for worship is shakhah. It is appropriately used for humans in a large number of passages.

In Genesis 49:2-27, Jacob pronounced a prophetic blessing on his sons, and concerning Judah he stated: "Judah, your brothers shall praise you; your hand shall be on the neck of your enemies; your father’s sons shall worship [shakhah] you (49:8)." And in Exodus 18:7, Moses honored his father-in-law, Jethro: "Moses went out to meet his father-in-law, and worshiped [shakhah] him and kissed him; and they asked each other of their welfare, and went into the tent." 

Yet none of these passages were discussing the worship of adoration, the kind of worship given to God. 

People who do not know better sometimes say that Catholics worship statues. Not only is this untrue, it is even untrue that Catholics honor statues. After all, a statue is nothing but a carved block of marble or a chunk of plaster, and no one gives honor to marble yet unquarried or to plaster still in the mixing bowl. 

The fact that someone kneels before a statue to pray does not mean that he is praying to the statue, just as the fact that someone kneels with a Bible in his hands to pray does not mean that he is worshiping the Bible. Statues or paintings or other artistic devices are used to recall to the mind the person or thing depicted. Just as it is easier to remember one’s mother by looking at her photograph, so it is easier to recall the lives of the saints by looking at representations of them. 

The use of statues and icons for liturgical purposes (as opposed to idols) also had a place in the Old Testament. In Exodus 25:18–20, God commanded: "And you shall make two cherubim of gold; of hammered work shall you make them, on the two ends of the mercy seat. Make one cherub on the one end, and one cherub on the other end; of one piece with the mercy seat shall you make the cherubim on its two ends. The cherubim shall spread out their wings above, overshadowing the mercy seat with their wings, their faces one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubim be." 

In Numbers 21:8–9, he told Moses: "‘Make a fiery serpent, and set it on a pole; and every one who is bitten, when he sees it, shall live.’ So Moses made a bronze serpent, and set it on a pole; and if a serpent bit any man, he would look at the bronze serpent and live." This shows the actual ceremonial use of a statue (looking to it) in order to receive a blessing from God (healing from snakebite). In John 3:14, Jesus tells us that he himself is what the bronze serpent represented, so it was a symbolic representation of Jesus. There was no problem with this statue—God had commanded it to be made—so long as people did not worship it. When they did, the righteous king Hezekiah had it destroyed (2 Kgs. 18:4). This clearly shows the difference between the proper religious use of statues and idolatry. 

When the time came to build the Temple in Jerusalem, God inspired David’s plans for it, which included "his plan for the golden chariot of the cherubim that spread their wings and covered the ark of the covenant of the Lord. All this he made clear by the writing from the hand of the Lord concerning it, all the work to be done according to the plan" (1 Chr. 28:18–19). 

In obedience to this divinely inspired plan, Solomon built two gigantic, golden statues of cherubim: "In the most holy place he made two cherubim of wood and overlaid them with gold. The wings of the cherubim together extended twenty cubits: one wing of the one, of five cubits, touched the wall of the house, and its other wing, of five cubits, touched the wing of the other cherub; and of this cherub, one wing, of five cubits, touched the wall of the house, and the other wing, also of five cubits, was joined to the wing of the first cherub. The wings of these cherubim extended twenty cubits; the cherubim stood on their feet, facing the nave. And he made the veil of blue and purple and crimson fabrics and fine linen, and worked cherubim on it" (2 Chr. 3:10–14). 

Bottom line, honoring Mary and/or the saints who are alive, is perfectly biblical. Jesus Christ is the one Mediator of man and God the Father, the only Person whose Blood saves us; but the most effective and beautiful way to Jesus is through the imitation of Mary and beseeching her to pray for us.

103 posted on 12/14/2014 2:51:39 PM PST by NYer ("You are a puff of smoke that appears briefly and then disappears." James 4:14)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies ]

To: freedumb2003

Must be advent. Time to diss the mother of Jesus.


211 posted on 12/14/2014 7:21:44 PM PST by Mercat ("The sisters did not want to save the world. Someone already had.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies ]

To: freedumb2003
I believe that there are those interested in legitimate interdenominational discussion and dialogue. That can make for an interesting, informative discussion, which can help in our understanding of one another as followers of Christ, in genuine Christian charity.

Some, however are not; as in any religious discussion, so are there those present within this one. "By their fruits you shall know them."

God's peace be to all!

1,044 posted on 12/16/2014 10:41:46 AM PST by Grateful2God (preastat fides supplementum sensuum defectui)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies ]

To: freedumb2003

Is anyone making you read these? If not, just ignore them like I do other threads. Some like to be informed. I have learned so much from them.


5,974 posted on 01/14/2015 4:42:55 PM PST by MamaB
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson