Posted on 12/10/2014 6:32:20 AM PST by marshmallow
"Christian unity" is one of those terms that stir up a whole spectrum of—sometimes emotional—opinions.
On the one hand, we know that Jesus prayed to the Father concerning future believers "that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you" (John 17:21a, NIV).
On the other hand, charismatics know it is almost pointless to discuss the gifts of the Holy Spirit (1 Cor. 12, 14) with Baptists or most anyone else from a mainline denomination. And Protestants of just about any stripe get riled up when they hear Catholics talking about papal infallibility or their adoration of the Virgin Mary.
It's on this latter point that Rick Warren, senior pastor of Saddleback Church in Lake Forest, California, and successful author, has waded into a hornet's nest of controversy by telling a Catholic News Service interviewer that Protestants and Catholics "have far more in common than what divides us" and that Catholics do not "worship Mary like she's another god."
Regarding Warren's view that Catholics do not worship Mary, Matt Slick, writing on the website of the Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry, goes into great detail with material from Roman Catholic sources that say Mary is "the all holy one," is to be prayed to, worshipped, that she "brings us the gifts of eternal life" and she "made atonement for the sins of man."
If that's not putting her in the place of Christ as a god-like figure to be worshipped, then what is it?
"We believe in Trinity, the Bible, the resurrection, and that salvation is through Jesus Christ. These are the big issues," Warren says. "But the most important thing is if you love Jesus, we're on the same team."
To Warren's point about being on the same team, Slick.....
(Excerpt) Read more at charismanews.com ...
No, not always And the Lord appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day; And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,
And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground; And he said, Behold now, my lords, turn in, I pray you, into your servant's house, and tarry all night, and wash your feet, and ye shall rise up early, and go on your ways. And they said, Nay; but we will abide in the street all night.
Then the Lord opened the eyes of Balaam, and he saw the angel of the Lord standing in the way, and his sword drawn in his hand: and he bowed down his head, and fell flat on his face.
And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, behold, there stood a man over against him with his sword drawn in his hand: and Joshua went unto him, and said unto him, Art thou for us, or for our adversaries? And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the Lord am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my Lord unto his servant? And the captain of the Lord's host said unto Joshua, Loose thy shoe from off thy foot; for the place whereon thou standest is holy. And Joshua did so.
And David lifted up his eyes, and saw the angel of the Lord stand between the earth and the heaven, having a drawn sword in his hand stretched out over Jerusalem. Then David and the elders of Israel, who were clothed in sackcloth, fell upon their faces.
Yes, always. You do realize the pre-incarnate Christ appeared in the Old Testament, right? He accepts reverencec and worship. That’s a hint.
Until someone is born again, all our righteousness is as filthy rags. We are under judgment until we accept Christ as our Savior. It requires the act of being born again, not just believing He exists or is God, as Satan and the demons do also.
Yes, I understand you have holy tradition. Catholics also believe in Theophanies (manifestations of God) in the Old Testament. For example, the cloud and the burning bush. The scriptures say they were angels. They were God's messengers and sometimes God spoke, or killed, or delivered, through them. You yourself claimed they were created beings. The LORD Jesus Christ is neither an angel, nor a created being. He is the Son of God.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church explains: 707 Theophanies (manifestations of God) light up the way of the promise, from the patriarchs to Moses and from Joshua to the visions that inaugurated the missions of the great prophets. Christian tradition has always recognized that God's Word allowed himself to be seen and heard in these theophanies, in which the cloud of the Holy Spirit both revealed him and concealed him in its shadow.
In the volume of the book I find: Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high: Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
The "act of being born again", O.K. I guess...isn't that kind of like accepting Him as our savior?...or perhaps following Him through the religion that He founded?...How about accepting the second most important gift that He gave us, that being the Eucharist, His Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity, under the appearance of bread and wine?
I'll take my chances in the Catholic church...thanks!
Not only must we be born again, eat his flesh, drink his blood, and overcome, we must also become as little children. At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven? And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them, And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Include the source information with your Bible quotes: Book, Chapter, verse.
For some strange reason, it seems like Roman Catholics think they ONLY qualify as children of God and brothers and sisters with the Apostles and prophets in Christ. You aren't. And Mary is ALSO our sister in Christ, not our mother. We don't have to have the Apostles with us right now to know what they believed and taught because we have the sacred Scripture they wrote under the leading and inspiration of the Holy Spirit. As long as we follow what Scripture says, we will be walking in truth. I think the Roman Catholic church has much to explain about why they stopped teaching what Scripture does and why they have changed many of those doctrines that were once delivered unto the saints.
You keep reverting back to this defense that individuals have total independence and a right to make the Scriptures say whatever they want them to say, but that is neither what sola Scriptura means nor is it what genuine believers think or do. God's word isn't written in some secret code - the Gnostics believed that - but is clear and reveals the truths God wants us to know. Words in context mean what they say. The "deeper" things of Scripture are illuminated by the Holy Spirit with each believer and truth is absolute not relative. If the early leaders of the Christian faith used the Scriptures to combat error and heresy and advised their followers to NOT accept anything they taught if they could not find it in Scripture, then that sure sounds to me like they trusted in the authority and sufficiency of the Bible.
In that same way, those who follow cults and false religions can be disputed by that SAME sacred Scripture. It is our rule of faith and every assembly/church who remains faithful to it will continue to teach the truth - the UNCHANGABLE truth.
Does it bother you to have someone in your alliance who teaches that abortion is not murder, that there is no soul created until the baby takes a breath outside the mother's womb. Therefore there is no scriptural prohibition against abortion.
I don't know anyone in my "alliance" who teaches abortion is acceptable. I have and will continue to support and defend the right to life for ALL innocent human life. And you are wrong to say there is no "Scriptural prohibition against abortion". There are PLENTY of supporting Scriptures that teach abortion is wrong and is an offense against God. Just because the word "abortion" isn't in Scripture doesn't mean it cannot be condemned BY Scripture. Do you need me to show you where?
Can you explain ? I do not see that rule in this link. The KJV is not copyrighted.
And they heard the voice of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God amongst the trees of the garden. And the Lord God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou? (Genesis 3:8-9)
John (1:1-5) traces Christ's geneology back to "In the beginning":
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by Him; and without Him was not any thing made that was made. In Him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
The subject discussion from which you took the word "bow" was pertaining to a discussion of idol worship and creature worship as opposed to the worship of the Creator. It was not a discussion pertaining to how one behaves torward others in the nature of hospitality or politeness. I hope your reading comprehension allows for you to agree that the 2 preceeding sentences are an accurate summary of the context in which I wrote.
If that is not the case, then let me state unequivocably here: the context of the meaning of the word "bow" from which you wish to make an argument concerning humans 'bowing' to angels in the Old Testament was about "creature worship" and did NOT pertain to hospitality OR politeness.
This is one of many examples as to why it's very important to make sure you are accurately and correctly understanding the context in which word(s) and sentence(s) are written when quoting those words and sentences so they are not taken out of context and "inadvertently" apply a false meaning or intention to those words or sentences. For example, it would be false or a misrepresentation for me to claim that the word "bow" in the following sentence intends "being polite": "For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God" (Romans 14:11)
Now, getting back to my point, angels do NOT allow themselves to be worshipped, by anyone, as the following Scriptures evidence:
Revelation 19:10
And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.Revelation 22: 8,9
And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things. Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.Compare the above with a different reaction made by Daniel who fell upon his face to the angel Gabriel out of fear:
Daniel 8:16 - 18
And I heard a man's voice between the banks of Ulai, which called, and said, Gabriel, make this man to understand the vision. So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision. Now as he was speaking with me, I was in a deep sleep on my face toward the ground: but he touched me, and set me upright.I honestly find it amazing how you are willing to 'split hairs' over the word 'bow' but cannot comprehend 'personal Savior," or "grace," "faith," and "works": "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast" (Ephesians 2:8-9), but, that's just me.
Your words, obviously false
My words obviously NOT false.
I cannot help when someone takes words out of the CONTEXT in which they were written.
Whenever excerpting something you did not write, always include source information, e.g. Book, chapter, verse - title, author, page, etc.
Not false:
Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God. - Rev 22:8-9
I’ll make sure to say “curtsy” next time so that vet doesn’t think that I’m saying ‘bow’ in the form of hospitality as opposed to worship.
Although, then I’ll get “curtsy isn’t in the Bible and I’m telling lies”
;)
Should ? I understood you just ordered me, as if it were a rule. I have checked the rules before so as not to break them in ignorance. Why could I not find this rule in the Code ?
As God is our witness, I only post the KJV.
LOLOL!
Your words, obviously false
Some people’s children! :)
My words. It’s not obviously false based upon your postings. I believe you have claimed you’re going to heaven because you’re baptized Catholic, that you believe Jesus is God. That doesn’t equate to the requirement of being born again, or saved, which provides eternal life.
As I’ve said several times, Satan and the demons believe in Jesus and KNOW He is God. They even quote Scripture, so they know that, too. But they aren’t going anywhere but south.
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